Big Tex Ordnance Podcast #11 - Jon Dufresne

Part Two of our interview with Jon Dufresne of Kinetic Consulting focuses on the approach Jon takes when working on product development as well and T&E. We discuss his strait forward approach to testing and data collection. Jon walks us through the steps he went through with two of his latest projects, an 11.5" Rosco Barrel as well as his signature 1-6 optic from Steiner.

bro that means nothing to me but I guess if somebody likes that they like it um but what I want to know is like how

does it perform over time like that's why when people ask me about certain things and like I just got a few

different little thingama Bobbies that I put up on on Instagram and go oh how do you like it I'm like I don't [ __ ]

know I literally just opened it up like I have no [ __ ] clue I literally just got it like I says it in the description

I know you don't read but it says in the description so um so it's very difficult because in this day and age everybody

just wants the quick should I buy that or I bought one already confirm what I bought

so so stop doing that to yourself right like uh if they just go out and train they'll learn with experience what they

may need and then they can go from there all right like um do I need an 11-5 or a 12-5

it's pretty much the same thing

[Music] well we're back this morning with mocha

bear with with Duffy with John Dufresne I got it right yeah I got it right

nailed it Texas Tactical Police Officers Association SWAT competition 2022

2022.7 times not doing it so we originally planned

for hey we're like hey dude can you think we can talk for an hour and we're like yeah we think we can talk for an hour well we're splitting that episode

up so this is part two if you've tuned back in thanks if you haven't well then

you know [ __ ] you yeah um yeah yeah the best Ricky Bobby uh

he's really expensive to get Will Ferrell for winning commercials so we're just Photoshop it into uh yeah okay I

think Paul Dugan did that yeah nice nice yeah we've got that's why we have the big red sticker the big Tech sticker is

specifically that but thanks for thanks for joining us again this this episode what we're going to really talk about we

knowledge bombs on the first one if you're listening to this out of sequence I don't know why fix yourself go back to

go back to episode one but in in this one we're going to talk more on

product development you are super involved in in product development to

to some people's Chagrin when you're like oh that's stupid and it sucks you'd

fix it right so let's talk about that how do you trans transition from

training knowledge bombs scribbling improving everybody that you're around

to I'm going to start working with products what was that transition like well

um so it was pretty easy uh in the grand scheme it's like I got to use things when I'm teaching

um or because I'm a student a lot I get to use things when I'm a student so it really was like a very simple way of of

hopping into it but the other reason is like like even in the Army like I I liked gear right I liked looking at it

and like being like Oh how can I modify or do something different with this to make it fit more functions so that it's

not just a only one thing I'm a Bobby that it can carry or it could do because

like when when you're out doing certain things like you're like well this is great but it only does this one

trick right I I can't use a one-trick pony all the time I mean there are certain things that are just stuck that

way but sometimes they have to be used in different ways or your brain wants to

use them or can use them in a different way to solve different kinds of problems so

I've always been one of those peeps that likes puzzles and stuff like that so it like just meshed in that same way well

out of the military like okay how do we make thinking Bobby's better right whatever it is and um I I don't know why

but I have like this probably a little autistic right like I'm like on the

Spectrum somewhere and I have this one little thingies that are these thingies

that come in into my brain in the middle of the night and I want to like make them right so any of my products are

literally things that I wanted for me and then all of a sudden made right like like I have the opportunity and the the

enough people that I know that we can make these thingamabobs and make them reality and sell them or whatever

now on on developing products for or helping other companies develop products or t e products that happens literally

because every day I'm I'm on a range doing something or I'm messing around with the equipment playing around with

it but what I found is like um not enough people take a nerd

approach to checking out certain things they're just like you know you look at any YouTube

video and it's like a review on blah blah and he's like opening the box

yeah it's like a rapper and like like you're like no like that's not that's

not a review of a thing like that's not even that's not even anything like you could put that as unboxing if you want

and I don't know why people watch that but either way like it's it's not a review he's like oh well I like the

sheen of it when it shines in my lights you know like bro that means nothing to me but I guess

if somebody likes that they like it um but what I want to know is like how does it perform over time like that's

why when people ask me about certain things and like I just got a few different little thingamabobbies that I

put up on on Instagram and people oh how do you like it I'm like oh [ __ ] know I literally just opened it up like I

have no [ __ ] clue I literally just got it like I says it in the description I know you don't read but it says it in

the description so um so it's very difficult because this in this day and age everybody just wants the quick

should I buy that or I bought one already confirm what I bought so so stop doing that to yourself right

like uh if they just go out and train they'll learn with experience what they may need and then they can go from there

yeah right like um do I need do I need an 11 5 or a 12-5

it's pretty much the same thing you should probably buy an 8.5 you should just do do what you want you know so

a big text Outdoors or I'm sorry or it is sorry I've been around for a while it

works it works either way works yeah it still takes you to the right domain uh but uh but that's that's one of the

things that like for me it's it's about like what's the use over time with

certain things and and how how can we go ahead and develop products to you know

help people use them right so when it when it comes to like testing out like

good example my Barrel right with Roscoe uh that barrel I've been using it for a

little over a year now all right and and taking it through through its Paces of

um normal like everyday hey I'm just shooting on the Range like from 50 yards and in kind of stuff to stretching its

legs out to 800 and and throwing different Optics on there to see how accurate I can get it

um there's videos of like a trigger Cam that I have that's on an optic on the Steiner

um to to shoot at distance uh well it's only 100 yards but shooting for groups and stuff and you guys can see literally

how it performs right there like through my eye right like because now you can see the reticle you can see how it's

performing you see me shoot it and and you can even see on paper like at the end like what the target looks like so

which is somewhat anecdotal because it's me shooting it like you you shooting it is gonna be different from me shooting

it but the but making it perform takes iterations of Trials and time under like

like four different uppers with four different gas ports in the barrels just

to figure out what was working the best so it takes time to do those things so when when people ask me the immediate

like what do you think about it like I ain't got no thinks about it like I I think it just came out of the box

you're you're talking to the exact the same the same people here that like somebody asked me hey what do you think

they're not like it's it's in a box I took a picture of it I looked at it it's 3.8 ounces in a

box it looks like looks cool well what do you think about it and so like I don't know from our point of view it's

like what's our feedback from our customers which is a really good point of view because I can be like yeah we

sold 900 of those and I got two back what were the two back for they didn't

like the color all right so that's to me that's a solid product if I've sold nine nine gazillion

of them or or that product has really solid marketing yeah yeah that too but if they're if

they're using it yeah so some percentage of that population that bought it might have actually used it how much negative

feedback are we getting on it zero okay cool because our customers are the customers that come back to us

instead of going to the manufacturer because we handle that for them so we deal with the manufacturers

send them a new one and all that [ __ ] yeah so that that gives us the ability to say yeah that bottle of water

is solid because we've sold 2 000 of them and and zero complaints well and

that's good data too yeah right like it and that's something that even manufacturers can get something out of two or the makers of the the Mad boys

um because think about the the amount of people that are buying that object from

you and then now you can think about how how many returns you guys have actually

done and if if manufacturers care about that stuff which some of them do some of

them are like very into their data oh yeah right and they're they're like how are the statistics going for our

products and uh and and that's a good thing to know but you guys keeping track

of that as as a distributor like that is [ __ ] solid right like I think people

miss out on on that little bit of information too sometimes but at the same time like I wouldn't get that and

that's the other thing too is like you when you ask me something I may have bought like two or three of them that's

a really small sample size where like you guys are getting sample size of 900 a thousand whatever the [ __ ] right and

and that that sample size gives you way better idea on how

um like the percentage of return or a percentage of warranty Shenanigans is happening and I I think that's that's

very valuable uh at least on the customer side of things right like like if they're looking at something and that

may be something that is portrayed on the website like that'd be kind of cool like if if there was like Hey

the data of the product you know like whatever you know and you click on it and it shows like the so many sold so

many [ __ ] whatever not not that that most companies want to give that information out but it's like yeah it's

just numbers I'll tell you what if it doesn't work we don't we don't order it again yeah I

mean it's quick fast in a hurry one one manufacturer sticks to my mind like we

saw a lot of hollow Suns and when I was doing returns we didn't get a lot of hollow Suns back and if we did it was

for you know I didn't like it I mean there was a couple you know little hiccups but it was like damn we saw a

lot of these things yeah we don't get a lot of lot back for like hey this is [ __ ] up and it's not working yeah I

mean there's a lot of Brands and if it is messed up hollow sun replace we replace it then all of a sudden no

questions asked oh you've got four of those yeah send them back yeah you know yeah here's seven months worth of returns there's four

out of thousands so you know and and it's it's good data but we as you know

we don't talk about this a lot but we as a uh or we do talk about it a lot we as a company I mean if it don't work we

ain't carrying it yeah that's that's one of the reasons like uh

you don't see like I don't sell other thingies on my website like it's my my

teaching my consulting services and then you get the products that I created that

I wanted right and this is pretty cool stuff too yeah did you bring any nerds to buy no I know I need to order a nerd

all right if uh you can ask Chad uh he may have some okay I don't know okay I

don't know if he brought any but yeah but but literally just there are thingies that I wanted so like I don't I

don't sell like Optics or lights or anything like that there's it's not worth it to me right I rather send people to you guys and like you guys can

fulfill those orders much easier and stock those things way [ __ ] easier than I can and I'm on the [ __ ] road

well I'm on an airplane not really the road but I'm on an airplane like doing things so it's like you're above the

road yeah I'm going over roads on the air Road

um but one day we'll have those um but uh but realistically like that

that makes sense to me but uh but when it comes down to it it's really cool

like even for myself like I collect numbers on my own equipment and like any other returns are like maybe something

got Miss sewed or something and it missed a spot and it's just like it wasn't there or or like

the dude was just [ __ ] super hard on it and just tore it and that's fine like like the cool part is it just gets

replaced but that data is something that for me is is one of those things that people can get uh more information about

the equipment that they're choosing to like go after um but then like any anything that you

develop or anything you start working on in in this world too needs some form of data collection right like if if you

didn't collect data on on the actual um products you're testing right like like

most companies or most dudes that you see out there they you know well this is my view review on this uh amazing

purified drinking water oh cool yeah and then it's like so when you squeeze it it

crackles and then and then when you turn the top it spins like

yeah but like what else right like why like we know that's what water bottles do like like tell me more and and like

the people just miss out on certain things and I know I know a lot a lot of guys like out there they're just doing

it because they like they just want like the viewership or whatever it is but like when it comes to like any of those

kind of things like online it has to be something that interests me right like I I want I if I'm gonna like actually have

a product for a long duration of time I want enough time with it that I can tell you like like the acro P2 right that

first battery that came with it I could only get eight months out of it right where where it's quoted longer than that

right on the on the nomenclature based on the setting you use or whatever but

we'll see what the second battery does but it takes eight months to see just my

battery like like so when people ask me it's like oh what are your thoughts on it like how's the battery life yeah dude

I've had that for a week like exactly right still on it's on bright it's it's going right

that's all you can do right so so like when when I put out anything on information you'll see like I put out an

updated one [ __ ] sometimes years later and it's just to give people an idea of where I'm at with it and and

that's something I took away from like Aaron right Aaron Cowan he puts these updates of like a [ __ ] 10 000 rounds

in on this optic and it's doing super good still sweet right that's good to know and and like I will say like

anything when it comes to Optics like go to Aaron especially red dots on handguns like he just puts out so much

information on it it's like there's no point of me doing that kind of stuff it's it's literally being done and um

and once again it's just small sample sizes like we can't test 10 000 [ __ ] units it's impossible for us to do that

and that's what the public does eventually and then and then you look at the numbers from the public and it's like all right how do we how do we

figure out if it's worth it for ourselves yeah so and it's all data but people aren't willing to sift through

that kind of stuff or you know actually go through it or if they're waiting on the the data for that it's like hey you

know what the the next model that's come out now and so like if you're waiting to buy a P1 dude you're you've lost the P3

is coming out next fall but we're not getting it because they're all going to Europe because they're actually the p2s

aren't micros so let's talk specifically about

development of your 11.5 Roscoe Barrel so uh

movie Magic without the magic part so we had like a smoke effect

I'll have to watch a YouTube video on how to do that production edit Starburst um so so the 11-5 uh Barrel that that

Roscoe um or really what I wanted to do with Roscoe was essentially see how short we

can get a barrel and how long we can get a gas system and how they'll they'll

correlate and and if they in state one stay accurate because inaccurate Barrel is useless to me right

I like I want it to be accurate but I I wanted to like last right I want it to be like usable where like I don't clean

a lot like like I don't clean a lot she's a dirty girl

and she shoots in the daytime the night time so you get those dew points where if you didn't know um humidity attracts

carbon like a lot and it gets sticky in there so I want to see like what what

will happen if it continues to go and not clean the barrel out no carbon changes or not cleaning carbon or copper

out of it what happens so um between this Barrel all right we took essentially Aarons

Barrel the the sage five or the sage 12.5 barrel and cut it down and then we

had to play with gas Port sizes so this is an 11-5 that uses a patrol-length gas

system essentially almost to the end of the rail here and uh and so I'm getting

as much of a gas system as I can out of such a short gun and I find eleven five to be one of the better uh lengths I

guess you can use for a lot of stuff it's not over gas for the most part depending on who you're using for your

stuff but I've found that with this this barrel

and this gas system not only is it running really smooth which is nice and

it's it's not tuned to the extent that like other people would do like there's a standard

um well it's the the Cobalt kinetics voltor bolt which is just the A3 like or

I'm sorry H3 uh weight and uh and then you're just using the I'm using the

Green Spring that comes with the rifle length spring so the Standard Spring and and a easy buffer that you know but like

everybody can have and so it's nothing custom there and it works with this barrel with Sims suppressed unsuppressed

and with UTM like all day long nice so like the cool part

is too is like um taking this thing out with with an optic on there uh out to 800 and still

being able to stay consistently on uh a decent size like silhouette steel at

that distance was awesome and being able to do it off a MAG not not a bipod you

know I didn't use my tripod for it which I should have I probably would have been a little bit more accurate but it was cool like just off my mag like being

able to just take my time and get some hits out to distance and just stretch the legs of this tiny little barrel and

then uh and then bring it back and just burn it the [ __ ] down with it and be

able to like all right like all right let me put a magnifier on it and shoot it out yesterday I shot out to 600 or no

sorry the day before I shot out the 600 on at the the range here right and that's with like 55 grain shenanigans

that I what is it PMC that I was I was using so it's like it's not impossible to do it's just people don't take the

time to try those things out and like I I always get the whole like

what's the you know kinetic energy at 600 years who gives a [ __ ] I I don't

want to get shot by it at 600 yards and I get it like you choose what you want but I just want to know what the

capabilities of of at its extent could be so

um when it when it comes down to it this barrel for me personally was like it was it was a like a year-long conquest of

how can I make this thing [ __ ] amazing and make it work really well to the point that I had four uppers made

four different barrels with four different port sizes until I found like a happy one that I liked the most and

that worked with everything so it took a while to like figure this out and I'm like excited as hell for it so

when it does come out uh I'm not only like um excited to see like what other

people find with it but uh but it'll also come out with my signature rifle

that'll look something like this minus the scratches and like [ __ ] up circuits we can't get the scratches on

the battle warrants here no no I'll talk to Mikey and see if we can get the scratches you must earn the scratches

okay must earn the scratches by using it using it what why would we do that why

would we do it but it must sit in the safe nicely what cast Port size did you go with uh Point uh what was it 0.79 so

so it's it's uh big-ish but not tiny and uh and what what it does with that

Patrol length gas or the patrol length gas tube it just ate it it sits so

nicely that when it's unsuppressed or suppressed you're not seeing any of that

um over gassing and the the carrier like speed that you're seeing on like some guns like you can slow-mo your your one

of your blasters that may be over gas like a mark 18 you can slow-mo that bolt and watch it bounce right it's and

that's that's like not good yeah that sounds like wear and tear I don't want that to happen not usually I want

certain things to bounce out there not that right so

so when it comes down to it like seeing how it performed with with relatively

normal things is is what I wanted like because for me I I'm not one of those

dudes it's like all right let me take it apart again and [ __ ] tune it a little bit more like I I'm just not into that I

don't have the time for that kind of stuff and realistically I just want things to work and I want it to work with everything and I wanted to shoot

subem away and I don't want it to cost a [ __ ] arm and a leg so for me

personally like this fit the bill completely yeah um and and like not only that but it

comes the gas too but comes with the freaking gas block the gas block it's it's literally there for you to just

throw into whatever yeah so the patrol length gas system is that like in between a carbine in the mid yeah so so

when you look at uh a mid length right and it and and it's probably

a little longer than this and then a carbine is around what the seven inches uh and so you're looking at around the

the nine-ish area with the patrol length and like it it's not the first time it's ever been done right like CAC has their

version of it right there there are other companies that do that kind of stuff but like

um doing it on a barrel that is still sub-moa is something I haven't found so

I'm like super excited about it yeah so I'm hoping I'm hoping it uh it hopefully

blows some minds and I I can't wait to see like what other people experience with it we're definitely excited about

it we like and and the barrels being made by Roscoe and we don't usually get

really product specific on stuff on this podcast uh but I've been super excited

about it till since you started posting pictures and and talking about it but but wasn't specific and then I'm over

here talking to Rich at Roscoe and he's like and we're working with somebody body and I can't tell who but he's got

this and we got I'm like so Duffy he's like oh [ __ ] let me describe you with that describing you big beautiful man I

was like okay when can we I need them and he's like well they're not out I'm like I know but I need them and so

literally yesterday I'm driving back out here and I my email dings and I look at

it and I call I'm like hi yes I need them I'll take them now they're

like okay okay we'll get you I was like do you do you want a PO no this is my PO this is my PO I'm telling you let's go

bro like the the sage barrels the sage Dynamic Roscoe barrels so I mean let me

deviate that that we can't keep them no we installed a

good amount of them every every time we get them in they go heck yeah and and here's that

that sample size of at 30 or 40 at this point

they're all out and they haven't came back hopefully the dudes are doing good

stuff yeah uh Justin ran his last night yeah he picked one up and a rifle shot great last night a

couple of dudes had had 12 fives from uh or that had the sage Barrel oh nice nice and uh and like even the day before on

Thursday like the competitions the tons of sage rifles everywhere loved it I I think it's so cool like it makes me

happy and like I like high-fiving Aaron whatever well I guess if you count the barrels that were in the sage guns that

we sold yeah then that number is just like even is that the same Barrel though I don't think is it the same it should

be the 12-5 like Patrol length is it unless unless they they use the carbine length at the time or whatever maybe it

was a carbine Lane I think it's a different Barrel oh okay that's all right well we can ask him we're we're

sitting down with Aaron here uh very shortly but I think it's so cool that

we're at the point we are where and I'm saying this we as in our

generation that's sitting around this table all right we're we're affecting this like this this is

this is science science yeah and that's that's how it should be like

look look at our phones yeah like nobody here has a Nokia right now like y'all

are involving as human beings that's why shooting evolves too like people people are like ah

this is the way we've always done it and you're like that's the only the way you've always failed it right yeah okay

cool like enjoy that because like you must have a root of your phone at home like like talking to Bill yesterday like

he started his SWAT court or cop career in 92 you know and just seeing like all that evolutions and the changes that's

happened over you know a couple decades is three decades yeah I mean just the the changes that I've seen in in different

[ __ ] when from when I was in the military to now uh and putting stuff on

on on early G watt to you know late gy yeah [ __ ] like almost a generational

thing yeah there's there's there's dudes that that spent their whole entire

career and it was it was gwat the whole almost the whole time they were in dudes right now that weren't even alive in

2001 yeah you know like that are doing it yeah to think that's that's how effective that that Shenanigans was

these days it's advancing exactly and uh that's

important at the speed that we're advancing at at constantly putting out better products

and and holding holding the companies to standards and that's that's the cool part about like uh like the internal

competition between them too because it's only going to improve things if they they have to compete against another company that's really good yeah

it drives Innovation yeah flashlights red dots Optics I I was going to actually bring up flashlights right like

Surefire was the the bee's knees for the longest time mod like came over and was like here's a screw in in the in the

industry wow and like started messing with [ __ ] Cloud through their [ __ ] thing in there and then now you have

this this three-man battle that's happening Streamlight got lost um they were like what's going on what

um but uh but you have this this battle for the bestest light ever and it just

keeps making [ __ ] better it's amazing yeah right like it's so cool because now like like I could use a fury or the

turbo I could use the [ __ ] clouds uh rain too and I could use any of the mod light okw stuff and like be super happy

with them and like they're all good options yeah and now it's just preference yeah which one do you like

more like which one has the Aesthetics I don't like that guy from that company I like this guy from this gun then then

buy that one right like like cool but they're all really good now so I'm really happy with it and I'm I the more

you see that kind of competition the more you're gonna Force The Innovation and and when you force The Innovation we

get cool [ __ ] yeah right and we get to play with more stuff so just like anything else like I've always been a

big like fan of like Innovative companies like even little guys like when uh Axl started oh yeah like dude I

I was all about it I was like oh my God they're teeny tiny nobody knew who the [ __ ] they were and I was like let me buy

that thingy all right like let me try this thing and let me talk to them and I was sad to see that they didn't come

this year or whatever but like every year I've chit chat with them seen what they're doing new

um I I've been using their prototype like Eclipse belt they gave me like for two and a half years like look that's

it's like it's not even in the production one and there's like like all sorts of things that are different on

the production one but it's like that's cool like I got to change a little bit of that but they they came in they were

like we're gonna do belts out of plastic right and and made [ __ ] happen so little

things like that like you start seeing all these companies and they just have to force betterment because the other

guys are forcing betterment and then they think they're being forced by the other guy and it's like a great

competition love it right that's that's the kind of like [ __ ] that we should be seeing right versus the whole like drama

or arguments that people have like who gives a [ __ ] what barrel length you want bro yeah nobody cares how do you

shoot it yeah that's what color green is it that's not that's not the right color green or I want it in purple yeah you

know just as long as it's not [ __ ] red Anno you know go get spray paint dude I don't know yeah yeah spray

paint's a thing man that's awesome you can make whatever color you want like you finger paint it like yeah whatever arts and crafts style yes I see nothing

wrong with this but yeah man it's it's uh it's crazy but like I think I think it's a lot of fun to see how everything

kind of continues to grow and and it's like it's all these all these dudes out

there that are like kind of messing with certain things to like try and push the limitations of equipment too right like

like uh in my night vision classes we don't we don't do a PowerPoint right because like I want you guys to

experience it like we we learn as we're doing versus you guys sitting there and

and trying to stay awake to digest this [ __ ] at the end of the damn day and then go into darkness to go shoot it right

like why do that when I can I can just show you like instead of like show you

what somebody else may be doing in a video you know what I mean like let's do it in person and and it's I I've gotten

a lot more uh responsive like feedback from that in a good way versus like

powerpointing people to death and then people actually learn more because it's coming in at a at a a weight that they

can receive it right instead of just PowerPoint PowerPoint PowerPoint so like even [ __ ] like that like just ways

of introducing the equipment or introducing limitations and equipment in

in a more realistic setting where people can experience that stuff versus the other way around yeah dude it's Texas

there's like a freak I don't know if it was a mosquito or fly I really hope it was a fly because it was

all right dude you're just gonna just blew a lot

of people's lives it works science so you you teach a did

you you taught a night vision pistol course right you're doing night vision specific pistol

course and you did one at the range yeah your guys yeah and so uh it's it's literally just the the handgun course

that I normally put on with a Sprinkle of night vision and we're doing it under night vision with white light stuff involved too but I I like I like

shooting handguns under night vision it's super fun like why not and the dudes had a blast it was really cool

seeing everybody like like enjoy that and like you can have fun with it because like when you learn how to shoot

your pistol better but people actually shoot handguns better under night vision uh than not with night vision from what

I've seen like dude scores on like uh b8s or their speed or whatever it was

that we were going through with metrics like they're all about it under nods and I think it's because you're you're so

focused under 40 degrees and you don't have peripheral Shenanigans bothering your eyes that you're just like you're

in tune with it you know like last night I had one of the guys he told me even with white light he's like I I could see

the B8 super clear when I'm using my white light last night but during the

day I see a fuzzy mess and it's literally because his eyes are are looking at his like they're they're on

his Optic versus being on the target but when the light is projected on the target it's creating that one spot where

his eyes have to look and he's more focused on the Target now fantastic shooting better right it was really cool

thing it was that that big guy next to me

it was awesome but you should get too uh but it was it was awesome to see and he kind of like explained that I was like

ah yeah this is probably what you're seeing right so it was really cool and like just experiencing what what night

can bring to you as a shooter because like you're just more focused on where you can see versus where you can't see

well because everything else is black yeah and look at the dudes what's the what's the Olympic pistol or air gun

where they where the they were the little blinders the blinders and all that and they're just yeah I mean that's the same thing

they're taking all of it they're just focusing they should have bought twelve thousand dollar night vision right blinders done right

pores those Olympic level athletes don't know what they're doing what a waste of eye space

everything's better overnight Vision it's just it's fun man but like one of

the things that I think a lot of people um like they think it's like it's uh like that that's not worth getting into

or whatever but like what you really or what you don't realize is like your rifle is is only you know daytime worthy

at that point and then when you get night vision like you you've just extended your ex like your your ability

to do stuff in in multiple lighting environments it's crazy and not only

that but you you get to enjoy more of shooting right or hunting even right

depending on what you do whether it's four-legged Critter hunting or two-legged critter hunting it don't matter bill was talking about last night

you know night vision on the Le side and what they're you know able to do now and

how that's evolving and the advantages of that that they're getting over the bad guy guys just having the night

vision and oh oh PID you know so it's it's phenomenal way oh yeah technology

is advancing not only exactly but like if they can't see me I have an advanced an advantage over them right by far

right whether I'm using white light to you know control them right and control their their photoreceptors or if I'm

using night vision and I'm literally standing in a darker spot than they are and that that to me is all worth it

right seen it firsthand like overseas like it was dark all over the place there but even in in certain cities

there are lights right and it's okay that's fine like your night vision is

gonna be fine and you can actually see a little better and as long as you stay in Darker areas you you are pretty dang

good right and uh and for me personally like I you could literally see the advantage like they can't tell where

exactly you are they they really are it is scarier right like think about it like who here has never been scared of

the dark before right as kids like all of us fear some of the darkness because it's unknown it's dark right it's like

the deep deep portions of the ocean like I'm not swimming in it like you know

like it's scary dude it's like yeah it's dark yeah so like when when you think about it if you can become comfortable

with the darkness and see in it like it just becomes another like a little part of you right and all the day Walkers are

stuck doing day walking things only you know it's it's pretty damn useful it's a big Force multiplier for sure yeah and

and people have been afraid of the dark since there was I mean there's still [ __ ] that will eat you in the dark in

some places in the world so that's why you gotta be able to see so you can eat them first yeah

I mean it was uh when we went on our honeymoon uh we were up in Utah and we

were hitting some of the national parks and I brought my I just have a set of PBS 14s and we were walking around one

of the national parks at night it's a you know one of the the dark sky registered Parks so there's

like no ambient Light Within certain mile you know certain distance cool and it was beautiful like we're just like

hiking down and I'm like I don't want to take these off like this is It's amazing sick like the other thing too is like

that's why astronomers use night vision because it it amplifies light right or

multiplies light oh but when they look at like stars they can see stars that we

can't see with our naked eye because the light hasn't reached Us in in enough brightness for us to see it right

through space so so they're using it to see more stars that's why when whenever somebody puts

on night vision for the first time I'm like all right look look up yeah yeah look at them things that's what I told my wife I was like she's like what are

you doing I was like look at the stars dude here like ooh shiny she's like oh this is you want to feel tiny yeah yeah

watch this well not just that but like like I mean you can see like the Milky Way sometimes depending on the time of

year and how clear it is outside like you see all sorts of things it's really satellites all kinds of stuff I remember

setting it first first time uh NTC 2003 through some sevens looking up on on on

guard and I was like you could just attack right now I don't care what's going on because I'm just going to look

at these Stars you can see more shooting stars even

yeah right like because some of them are are just not visible to our our eyes and stuff it's really cool so like if you've

never used night vision like it's worth getting a chance to play with it or practice with it or have somebody borrow it like whatever it is but um that's why

uh I I took the the expense of buying like I have seven sets so that six of

them are our rentals so people can literally rent night vision for any of my night vision classes because it's

it's so much fun and I feel bad like when people are like well okay go I don't have the night vision it's like well now the only excuses do you have

time and do you have the money to do it right like so so I'm eliminated one of the excuses I can't eliminate the other

two for people it's not not within my realm of possibility I don't have Fu money

but who knows yeah but uh but no in the grand scheme of things like it's it's

all these different little products and and the people that take the time to develop all these that have given us

what we have at this moment and then hopefully what what we continue to have over time you know like and uh and [ __ ]

man it's it's not just me doing this kind of stuff it's there's tons of dudes that do it way more uh in depth than I

do even but helping different companies in in that capacity versus just being like a like

influencers and like uh here's the box and here's the rapper like those kind of peeps uh which we all get categorized in

the same spot but that's fine like I could care less about label things what I care about is that the product is

coming out good right like where where it's going to be usable for you guys versus usable for that that one and a

half moment that you need it and then is broken the rest of the time you know like um but

uh we we all have different um I guess like everybody has different goals when it comes to this world or

this this industry or any industry really and uh and it's sad to see that I

think a lot of people don't recognize the differences between the peeps that are out there and hopefully hopefully

they start too and they start to see like well this guy literally unwraps every single box he reviews right like

that that should tell you something like how long has he had it right I just got

it like five minutes ago in the mail yeah there should it shouldn't be called a review if you're you're open boxing it

no you know it's just uh so it's opening the box yeah so but people like that

yeah there's people that I've watched them do you boo-boo do you yeah but

don't call it a review it don't give people uh like um what is it suggestions off of it

like yeah you should totally buy it it came in a really nice box yeah not not what we're looking for on

that so what so also Steiner you have the Steiner

t6x6i 36 there's an eye um so I can never remember the little

nomenclature for it is there one to six right um there we go it's their first vocal plane 106. and I had a little bit of

input on um on how I wanted the turrets to be right like 0.1 mil like adjustments so intense

um I also wanted like the the top one to be exposed but it could also be covered so you could have the option it actually

comes in the box which is kind of cool and then uh and then obviously the same for the side one or for the the windage

to have some kind of cap too uh because I don't dial for wind very often but I

don't think most people do anymore and if you do it's like to set it because you have a a specific like consistency

that's happening um because when so I mean it's always changing it's a big variable yeah and it

doesn't care what you think or what you do or what your feelings are Mother Nature says [ __ ] you like well like wind

is like I wish I could be wind like like a leaf on the Wind he just doesn't give

a [ __ ] dude he's living his best life like just winding all right I'm just blowing and things out how was the wind

yesterday on the uh the long range uh it was it was variable yeah um

I felt windy um but uh but then it was a radical that I had the most input on

um and uh and literally doodled it gave it to them they they once again a doodle

um of course everything starts out on a piece of paper sometimes uh but the uh

uh the engineers wanted something better based off of like me telling them that the original reticle they sent me was

like trash like the one that they designed and I was like this is this is ridiculous like this is unusable and and

they didn't like it at first but like the guy that I was talking to like their their representative that was that was

my contact he was like oh please please put this in writing for me because this is great like like the fact that you

call it trash is magnificent let's do this all right so he was all four because he didn't like it either and um

and it's because it's just it's an engineer making it right like they don't shoot

um and so what you have to do is you have to find that bridge between the two and that's where they bring in like a consultant like me and

um going through it uh designed my first reticle which is cool and what I wanted was a reticle that was on one power to

be a red dot right like it just gave me a nice little donut of death and a dot in the middle and that's what I want to

shoot with on one power and then at six power though I want it to be something I could use like a scope right not that

one at six is a scope or like like for super long distance stuff but like if I go to six like I want Mill marks that

make sense I want I want the sub tensions to make sense I want the the center to make sense so you want to be

able to take advantage of the capabilities of that rifle exactly like I wanted to be good up close but I also want to be able to reach out because it

can do it exactly right so so now like the center point on that little bad boy is like 0.25 mils like it's teeny tiny

and that's what I wanted I was like oh yes because now I can see around it I could use it very accurately like it's

it's it's what personally like I liked right which sorry everybody that doesn't like that

there's another option for you then don't buy it exactly don't buy it you do get let's get something else yeah um a

design your own reticle yeah good but uh hey some people can right

um but realistically like it it was it was me trying to find the the happy medium and then look at the the the

actual who's who's it for it was the biggest thing too it's like it was meant

for the dude that's gonna use it on like a home defense rifle and a dude that's going to use it like a patrol guy right

like like that's it it's not a military optic it's not for the the long distance

Enthusiast like that's a whole different [ __ ] optic right a whole different scope yeah so it's purpose built for

that kind of thing and then um uh and and that's really what I wanted so it has like six mils of of elevation

in the in the reticle and then it has three mils of windage on each side and then it has a tiny little donut that's

your half mil and in that whole thing and then that little Center Point that's 0.25 and it just solid reticle in my

opinion I I like it a lot but obviously I made it so I'm biased but it's like it was what I wanted and and I was very

happy with the way the reticle is uh if you haven't seen the reticle and want to see it like in action or whatever

um on on my Instagram or on my YouTube I have a couple videos of me shooting it through my my trigger cam oh nice and

you can literally see the little Center Point and how it how my wobble looks like on a MAG or on a bipod or whatever

it was that I was shooting off of and uh and you could literally see the optic work so it's kind of cool

um I'm excited to try and take it out a little bit more of a distance so I'm gonna go through I'm gonna film more

videos through that trigger cam like shooting at 100 two three four five whatever ever and really push those

those elevation um uh subtention or the essentially all the elevation on the actual reticle so

I'm excited about it kind of do do some more stuff with it and then um but yeah that's it's pretty cool uh

being that it's first focal plane that's where I'm able to have that one power that gives you that donut of death and a

little Dot and then sixth power that zooms right in keeps it all the same uh

like even if you went half everything's still means the same thing versus uh a

second focal plane which would have been like hey it's only accurate at whatever magnification and whatever magnification

yeah so and the cool part about this is as I saw the original reticle that you

wrote you've read back is the one that's right like and I said the same thing to the rep when I held it and looked

through I was like uh he's like what do you mean I was like uh he's like trash I was like yeah he's like there's that

word they're redoing it they're redoing it and and and and Duffy's and Duffy's doing this and I'm like all right cool

so when you get that I want to see it because that was that was I think I saw the NRA shows when he is when John first

had it yeah that's what they first brought it out yeah yeah and he's like dude it just came in like the FedEx

overnight and we got it like this morning by the way the funny part about those is that they sent them to me to be

like hey you like the reticle kind of thing and uh when they sent them to me I mounted them and I was shooting them

apparently they were not ready to be shot that's that's what John's was he was like yeah um we can't you can't

shoot or anything it's like it's it's just a cardboard tube yeah

so I mounted both those Scopes shot both of them and was like Hey man like the

elevation and windage shirts aren't working they're like oh you weren't supposed to shoot those like oops don't

put it in my hands like that's what I do I shoot things I need a sticker on it that says don't shoot this thing like

you do not shoot yeah so it was pretty funny I was like oh well the reticle looks nice I guess I can't

zero it but it looks okay I guess I was like I was like why did you guys send it to me like you got to tell me

that it was so funny but I'm sure that's that's part of the design process yeah and proofing and and all that stuff yeah

just don't send it to you without yeah they need to put a sticker on it like hey Duffy we just need you to look at the reticle like don't don't Mount this

and start shooting it uh because that's literally what I did the second I got home from one of my trips I was like oh [ __ ] yeah went out to one of the law

enforcement ranges I have access to and they're I'm over there it's not moving at all 60 rounds later

what the [ __ ] nothing's wrong with this I I go ahead and like oh I could fit

through the glass no it was it was cool but uh but either way

um like uh the one that I have is like uh one of the production or pre-production ones and and it works

really well so the the the turrets function properly

which cracked me up but yeah man it's it's it's super cool um it was fun being part of like uh

development of a reticle right the kc1 reticle first one and uh and so it's

really cool and and hopefully like it's something that that can be transferred over to other companies that they want to use it to like that'd be awesome

um but even if not like it it's cool little thing to have like uh like I got to design something that not a lot of

people get to like do so um getting that opportunity was

something I was all about and then uh and then hopefully working with them more in the future with other things or

right just other companies that I play around with all the time like you know helping Vortex out or helping helping

other dudes and with other companies to try and just develop better [ __ ] for everybody because I'm I'm like I'm not

down for subpar and uh and I don't I don't like like products that aren't worth my time yeah right like if it's if

it's bad or if it needs adjustment like let's do it so but I like working with companies like Steiner they were like

all right we'll do that or we can do that or yeah we'll go and fix that or this isn't what I wanted this is what I

want and they'll just go do it right so it works out really nice um it's the same thing that I did with Cobalt kinetics when when they first

brought me on um they they wanted me to shoot their gun and see what what I thought about it as just a consultant and I was like all

right cool and I didn't like certain parts of it and that's why if you look at like the first one I ever shot and

you look at the one that I'm handing I'm holding right now like they're completely different right rifles which is really cool like the whole system is

different the buffer system the way the bolt is the actual hand guard shape and geometry like it the owner Aaron was

literally like what can we do different and I was like oh hell yeah like that's what I like to hear because like now now

we can have some fun and let's let's go run a muck right and you sit down with me and we we go through little different

things and and like literally like you see this piece right here chop it the

[ __ ] off you know get the [ __ ] out of there right like what about this no [ __ ] that right so like the their rails used

to open up so that you can fit a suppressor in there like we don't do that anymore right like I don't want my

laser to get hot like that right like that's useless to me like shut the [ __ ] off right like just extend

the M lock give me more M lock right and lock all the things yeah yeah like it should be M locky all the way around

right um but uh but dude he was all for it he did not take anything personally he

wasn't like well you know look it makes me hurt that you say that like no dude he was just like all right [ __ ] it like

literally one of the Rails that I was like uh I don't like that opening he was like all right

all right what do you think about that's now it just needs a little bit of two

nail like like needs to be nice out but it's nice

he just took a Dremel gunsmith yeah I don't think it was a Dremel but it definitely cut that [ __ ]

but I was like that thing's awesome like like now now we're getting somewhere where we can just start chopping [ __ ] and and uh and changing and and making

the firearm better right so like like that's that's where I wanted out of like

a company that I'm gonna work with and so so now like I mean I've traded or not

traded but I've given away like four rifles that weren't Cobalts that I was just like I don't need these anymore I'm

not going to shoot them so giving them away to students that like had just [ __ ] rifles um like I like giving away like a whole

gun and they're like oh I'm like yeah we could do that it's Florida uh but yeah man and then and then the other thing is

like they yeah somebody gets a new gun or of a relatively new gun I've shot probably the [ __ ] out of it but like it

still has life in it and it's free so so um but I'm not going to use it like I don't I don't keep things in my safe

that I don't shoot yeah so that and then and then just like the the way that

um some companies are willing to adapt right to the new new things in the world is it makes me happy so I'm pretty

stoked about it man it's it's really nice working with them they're they're super easy going and like I said they're

just open to change they're constantly you got an idea you gotta do what can we do with this it's like like

draw it for me you know like any any funky weird thing that I can think of and and they can possibly do Aaron's all

about it it's super cool like it's it's cool to have somebody in like in in the court with you that wants to play the

game with you you know versus somebody that's there but they're like well you know sales and you're like

I don't care about that like that's not my part this is not my my recipe you

know I'm here for the [ __ ] let's let's mess with [ __ ] right let's let's go you know put on the lab coat and

figure out things so do science yeah whatever it is but yeah that's that's pretty much me in a nutshell when it

comes to all this product development so what do you got coming up so I have um a

mount that's coming out yeah uh which is exciting so uh hopefully the the public

will see it at the end of the month and stuff and uh and it's it's super cool um it's being coded right now and then

I'll just have to make some videos and stuff like how to's and you know obviously introducing it and stuff like that and then once that's done it'll be

up on my website but it's another little like Duffy creation um out of my crazy dream brain uh what

could I do this and so uh so that'll be cool and then um let's see my signature

rifle from Cobalt with my Barrel will be out uh hopefully in the next month or so and uh and that'll be something that

literally is just the way I like my rifles like that's it that's what like signature rifles are like like we spoke

about it earlier right like people like look at somebody's sitting your trifle and they're like well I don't like the

safety you know it's like uh [ __ ] it's not about

yeah so so like a signature rifle is how that instructor or how that dude likes

his rifle that's all it is right so whatever it's not just like well what'll

sell you know like well some are probably like that but for me it's what is the signature rifle why do I

want it that way because this is the way I shoot it this is the way I like my my thing of my Bobbies so um it'll be it'll

be something like obviously in 11-5 because of my Barrel but it'll be a Cobalt but giving you

either a two-tone if you want it all green if you want it all black if you want it and it literally looks something

like this but the cerakote will match because it's not too different upper and lower does it come with a mall D.A if

you buy one yeah but yeah man it it should be pretty cool

um one of the things that that I'm excited about is like all the companies that are kind of involved in it so it'll

come with a sling from like condition one group which is uh another a really good company that teaches but they also

have a facility down by me in Miami and I use their facility all the time to teach uh just whether whether it's open

enrollment stuff or Le stuff and um and they they have their own sling that's

like veering off from the norm yep right like this is what a three-quarter inch

like sling where one inch is like the smallest we've ever seen right so they're they're going thinner and

smaller to go more minimal with it it's really [ __ ] cool like I thought like I was like man that's gonna dig into my

arm or dig into my neck or whatever but because it's so small like when we're holding the rifle it's almost not there

and then when you're when you need it there it just does what slings do so

I've been pretty happy with it and and I like my they're friends of mine so what's cool is like my all my rifles

will come with one of those so right off the bat and like you got a sling girl so

get get a site get [ __ ] light get a laser get a suppressor right get all

those things fix that thing at bigtexordnance.com [Laughter]

not not an advertisement not a paid advertising paid advertisement thanks

for sitting down and and talking with us and and our viewers and listeners can find you where uh you guys can find me

on my website kinetic dashconsulting.net um or just you know Google kinetic

Consulting uh you can also like my all my social medias is uh Canada consulting or my personal one mocha bear uh actual

um but yeah all that stuff it's all linked through my website so if you want my YouTube channel you could do that through my website there's a little

linky um but yeah I run everything for my my business so there's no admin lady or

some dude on the back end that doesn't know how to answer questions like it's just me so uh so anything you ever said

to my company is me answering and me telling you that that's stupid or that's just one of the best parts about owning

your own company that's fantastic like I don't have to worry about whatever everybody thinks I just hey oh okay nerd

yeah like like the problem you're having isn't a gear thing it's a you thing right like so so let's let's fix you

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