REDACTED Culture Cast 007: Jon Dufresne of Kinetic Consulting

Ten Years Later, two Rangers sit across the screen from one another and have a chat about what it takes to be a good instructor, how people make fools of themselves in the microcosm of Gun Culture, and gear development at a small but personal scale. Jon Dufresne AKA Kinetic Consulting, started teaching before he left the military, getting a head start on the soldier-to-instructor pipeline. With classes ranging from proficiency to night vision specific, open enrollment options are available to more than just Law Enforcement. Beyond instruction, Jon has developed some gear solutions to problems germane to the field. Support the REDACTED Culture Cast at redactedllc.com Instagramhttps://youtu.be/WZdkstsVwa4: @redactedllc

yeah you have to be a little crazy to do this which is why I get to invite everybody onto the show so first of all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZdkstsVwa4

thank you everybody for joining us today on the redacted culture cast I have as a guest John defrayne sometimes goes by

mocha bear uh would you please introduce yourself hey what's scribes um my name is John

Dufresne I'm the owner of kinetic Consulting and uh yeah we're uh go have

some fun let's talk about things and you in kinetic Consulting uh does

accomplish multiple tasks you guys have a training schedule and so uh a lot of training

um Consulting for agencies different uh entities totally uh and then we have r d

we do a lot of tne for a lot of companies um and we design our own products and

actually sell our own products as well I also write for a few different companies like different magazines and stuff and

uh yeah that's that's a small portion of it awesome yeah so I will have to send

you something for tne in the near future but we'll see when that happens

or those who are listening uh for those who are still listening that now that you've gotten past the introduction you know that this show is supported by you

guys the listeners you can support us through our merch at redacted llc.com uh

we do thank you for what you have done so far we are carrying on with optimism

but as today's conversation John so uh you and I you and I have the

benefit of background we've known each other for a while yeah um we've met a long time ago in a state

for me far far away but you um so you have transitioned from

military into training which from the outside looking in can look

not surprising like oh okay that's a natural progression right however for those of us who have been in the

military it's not although there's a natural sense to the progression it's not always

like a smooth or immediate peace you don't grad you don't get out

of the military and someone doesn't run up to you and be like oh we need a local instructor here you go you know so how

how was your transition from military to training how did that go well um it

actually kind of worked uh pretty seamless for the most part because I I did a lot of teaching while I was in the

military so um whenever we got new like wraps raspies uh somebody had to teach them

how to shoot so it was cool like I had a couple um ncos that they they were all about it

right they were they were competitive Shooters they knew that I enjoyed competitive shooting so we would

actually go and and shoot together on the weekends and stuff so it ended up being natural that you know they had you

know a freaking private Duffy and then and then Corporal Duffy doing doing little you know tasks

like that and helping these out especially when I was getting out of the the Army uh when I was eight capping uh

we got like 14 brand new dudes and like I got to do all the their training so it

was kind of fun well the training that I was able to get to um but then from there I was teaching

for Frank Proctor from way of the gun for a little bit and uh I still do every once in a while or teach with him and uh

and so it was it was cool being able to shoot with him often and compete with him while still in the military too and

then uh once I left I I just uh kind of stopped teaching for a little bit because I started a career in the

security industry and um and then from there I got I kind of picked it back up and I always

enjoyed shooting so it was very easy for me in that way but um eventually I started my own company

to help out and consult for a local agency and it grew and they spoke to

another agency and they spoke to another agency and then uh somebody asked me one day they were like well why don't you

just teach civilians too and I was like oh ah I could do that and so open it up and really really got teaching more and

more um and also uh teach for stage Dynamics so for for Aaron Cowan so I I do a lot

of uh or I kind of like worked my way into it but what I found is like a lot of guys that

that ask me these right these questions like oh how'd you get into it because they want to do it or something

um it's not it's not like the easiest thing in the world because you you can't

just be good at the thing right you can't just be good at and a like I can't just be good at opening this water

bottle like I have to be able to describe to you in detail and make it so

easy for you to digest that you could understand the complexities to opening the cap on that thing

so if people can't convey what they're trying to do or be uh clear and concise

about what they're trying to uh give you in Information Form uh they you may not

receive it the right way so learning and or start teaching is a

as a skill of its own and I think that's something that we kind of miss out on in this in this industry a little bit is

that like the difference between a teacher and like an instructor so you're in you get out of the military and you're in college because you made

that choice and if you're thinking about teaching I highly recommend going and taking a speech class

yeah yeah okay for sure did you did you did you utilize your GI

Bill uh I did I I went to college um I started college when I was like 25

or 26. yeah so it's a little little after um and I did my associates I have my

degree and my bachelor's degree in business so nothing too fancy and and kind of since I've stopped there so far

I thought about going further but just don't feel like wasting money that way so yeah

definitely I mean the the Firearms the Firearms side or the gun culture or the the the shooting world has it like it's

not it's not the same you know a degree will get you certain places but there are

plenty of places where it just doesn't fit uh it's not just about the piece of paper either it's like um like what kind

of knowledge am I gonna get from there that I can apply to my my circumstances or my future circumstances that I'm

trying to achieve right like um my entrepreneur class in business school was awesome right yeah my eyes to

like kind of running my own thing and creating my own business and I was like this makes sense because I actually have

my own business so it was it was very useful where like my you know the the law classes didn't

do anything for me for the most part and anything that I want to know about that that's specific to my industry I can

actually look that up and learn about it so very little things little things in in there uh help you

yeah fair fair enough yeah I uh I I mean yeah one of the things that

I've noticed about even this culture this industry is is it's not a one-to-one translation right so like if

you take a a business guy who's good at his business things you can't just step

into gun culture and make a a company successful right just because you're

following your your your rules of business 101 it's like no you really have to know the nuances of the of this

base and it's it for better and For Worse you know we've all I don't know if well

we've most of us many of us have seen at least the after effects of somebody not

from this culture coming in thinking that they

know something about business and completely upending their own ship and

the and the inverse is true though there are you know there's always there's always room so you teach classes what is

the I I know you teach them night vision classes I know you teach them pistol and rifle based classes um and then I think

I think I've seen some CQB CQB kind of focus classes and they can find your calend they can find your calendar at uh

on your website yeah um well isn't that that's kinetic

dashconsulting.net.net yeah okay kinetic consulting.net gotcha you can go I think

you're I think you're popular enough in Google that Google will just you just get Google yeah I've actually done my own SEO so it's something else like and

more learning if you want to call it that I've I learned to build and use and

operate my website uh fully so I don't rely on other people to do it and that

way when there's something wrong with it or I misspell the word or something I could go fix it you know so you hero

yeah so running your own website how dare I you know but um but yeah it was

it was just a little learning experience for me but uh but yeah like the everything about it so the SEO all the

way down to the newsletters the everything I do everything myself so

it's kind of cool like being able to do that at least function wise well I mean we did we there was a time

where we were supposed to say things like suicide so good for you yeah pretty much but yeah so your training um what

uh do you have oh here's the easy one do you have open enrollment night vision CQB classes I do you do okay

I'm uh a fan of teaching civilians like I think I think everybody should know

how to do things um some people like to you know hey you shouldn't teach that TTP to them or

whatever go on YouTube man like it's all available yeah okay when you say some people are

you saying people within the culture or people outside of the culture really within the culture they don't

want to uh they want to like gate keep it right like oh no it's tactics you only teach

that to law enforcement or military but realistically speaking like you you

they're going to learn it in some way or or another right like whether they go on YouTube and they see it on the Internet

or they go and watch a movie you see certain little ttps popping up it may be

wrong which is good because like maybe somebody's not seeing it but like it doesn't matter what matters is that

your skill level in that actual you know that task is above whatever you're going

against so yeah uh in my opinion like it doesn't matter if somebody knows what

you're gonna do it it matters how good you can do that thing so that they don't get a chance to counter it so but but I

mean they're differing opinion opinions but I like teaching it that's a good thing the challenge of it too is is

amazing where you take you know 12 to 16 dudes that have never met each other

and you somehow make them a cohesive team in the next two or three days and they're all able to work together it's

really impressive yeah that's a good point on uh that's a good point on the

what you know the gatekeeping subject because I due to I think due to timing and it's

being germane to the culture writ large that subject seems to come up a lot this

idea of gatekeeping like and I say a lot like you know pretty pretty regular maybe you know one

in three conversations at least brings up the concept of gatekeeping and

on the one hand I think there's the legal aspect of gatekeeping what I mean

that is you have an instructor who is of the opinion and the demeanor to say I

can't actually teach this in a class because then it will render me legally liable for an action that may or may not

happen in the future which is one form of gatekeeping because

um you know like I guess it's one form in the sense of gatekeeping by saying like while you don't technically have

the job description so I can't justify in a court of law teaching you something

and I I think that's like the least probably the least pompous way to answer the question

because you're but you're also but because you're like deferring responsibility to the league the legal

system yeah it's it's like saying hey man I can't do that my insurance company doesn't you know a lot yeah yeah you're

you're you're you're you're kind of like blaming somebody else for not wanting to or whatever it is

well no like I can I can under I can understand it from a risk based scenario

but I'm not I'm not actually I wouldn't say I would justify it because okay if you're in a position where

you're going to introduce a subject and then tell your students that you can't

teach them that's a you problem you should not be let's see that's definitely a you problem students will

ask about things but uh but I also think that tide is

changing and I think that tide is changing really quickly because that seemed to be a really 2000 2010 2013

attitude uh which you know oh my gosh that attitude's so 2000 into it every

once in a while it runs it once in a while but it's definitely like the front of things

for me personally like I see the you know the more knowledgeable good

people that are out there um the better right like the if if you

can you can educate more people right like because it all comes down to education in my opinion

um because anything can get somebody you know hurt right like the school system teaches all sorts of shenanigans and and

like the school system's not held liable for what that person does in their future you know what I mean so um so for

me when it comes to it it's like I'm providing education and hopefully it's something that they

can use to improve their life or save lives or you know it's it's not done out

of a malicious intent in any way so really being held liable for it would be something that I guess I mean we could

probably talk to a lawyer about it and figure that out but I I find that to be a very thin argument for

um for teaching because it's like okay like the movies teach you things I don't

see anybody suing Hollywood for you know like hey that that guy shot that gun

like that and I did that and I actually got her doing it like no it was like they didn't like they're showing you

this yeah this is offended reality or like what you know Breaking Bad taught me how to cook meth yeah I have to bring

I don't think I haven't seen this show but I have more than liked the first two episodes

but I get it yeah like the entertainment industry is not held responsible the uh

and and there is a line to be crossed there but I do I I think I do find it a very

ethically challenging argument and I find it extremely frustrating that both judges and lawyers seem to know so

absolutely so little about what we do even you know you know what I mean like

it's just well it's the same thing with technically with us right you know like

I don't know what judges and lawyers do every day too I don't I don't follow their guidelines or their industry if

you want to call it that um but that's because I'm not you know a lying piece of [ __ ] so okay

um but but those are there goes our monetization yeah no no you're good it's

it's completely fine man you can just redact that so well now I'm now I'm not going to

because because it's funny not that we're good but yeah over the course of the years

like I I think like um the more the more good people I can educate is is what my goal is you know

is is to constantly educate humans to be better because we have so many bad people in this world like so many like

just just I mean however you describe bad I guess because everybody has a different perspective on things like

that but um people that are morally corrupt and morally

incorrect in a way and those and and then there you have the other peeps that are like trying to work for helping

people and make people better um we need more better people if that

makes sense like human beings that are doing the right thing as human beings not continuously you know slaughtering

and causing genocide or doing genocide uh but like being being good human

beings for example like the the human trafficking stuff right uh that that industry is so interesting to me because

there are people that take their time out of their lives to go and and help

prevent this or relocate these people that are were taken from their homes uh

unwillingly or by being coerced or coerced and then all of a sudden like

like they're now being traded as slaves and it's 2022 man like like it's like

that's still a thing and people people just like brush it off all the time but

there are still good people that are doing that stuff you know like I know I know a multitude of guys uh and and like

even to yourself that still do that [ __ ] and spend their times taking care of

people in that way um and being good people like just out of the goodness of their hearts because

most of the time you don't get paid to do that [ __ ] so the same with like anti-poaching you know like the poor

animals like I get it like it like we took over most of the world so now animals don't got no

place to live so we're trying to help them not be poached and you know put

into Extinction so because the ecosystem kind of makes our whole world kind of go around kind of thing

um so even that like good people take time out of their lives to do that [ __ ] for free sometimes and it's because they

they have moral or they they really they they want to do the right thing so I want to educate more good people or make

people more good if that makes sense by using education as the stream to do so

and that's that's how I look at all these things yeah I mean and the whole the anti-poaching thing isn't entirely

selfless it's a little eye in Randy and selfish because I want my children to see an elephant and a giraffe yeah right

I mean there but that's not I mean that's a hyper simplification oh absolutely well usually usually

they're part of like an ecosystem that has to like kind of function so once once an animal you know becomes extinct

you'll look at the ecosystem that they're part of or that chain that they're part of and it starts to become you know skewed in some form of fashion

so that Predator is no longer around now some pest is able to like continue doing

its thing so the Predator was actually the good guy and they were doing good then now you got this pest that's

terrorized with and destroys things right it destroys crops destroys you know ecosystems in Barrel Hogs yeah

yeah there you got we don't have feral hogs out in this area but you do yeah yeah so it's just it's things like that

like yeah and like again like I'm going off on like crazy tangents and stuff but like it's it's just these are the crazy

little things that I I think about when when it comes to like trying to build good people is where does it go to like

or what are we gonna do with it and and why are we gonna do it so little little

things like that which is part of the reason why I wanted to have you on the show is because of the conversations that we've had

um regarding things like the ethics of being capable of violence or the the

I I think one subject that comes up that would define it now I want your

opinion on it is is the relationship between capability responsibility and

um what I would say is intention maybe motivate maybe not intention but

Direction because you know um I can want to be cool like a Navy

SEAL I want to be able to do the things that a Navy SEAL or an Army Ranger or Delta Force guy does

but those skill sets unpracticed or under undirected either chaotic or

atrophy right they don't I don't have all right it depends right like it depends on what tasks they're trying

they're talking about because if I want to be like an Army Ranger and I want to be able to just you know be able to move

my body with heavy [ __ ] for a really long distance like cool man I mean if

you don't have the capability but maybe maybe getting the physical fitness up and that that gets you excited about doing more like cool but if you're

talking like on the crazy tactical Shenanigans like you mean

I have the facilitation to do so and then you gotta also think like it's only a small

portion of each of our jobs right like think about like when we were in dude like

we did very little like rangering we did a lot of

army Shenanigans right a lot of yeah yeah is there uh like is there online

learning up to date yeah like I I whenever people are like oh man I want to be a ranger I'm like oh that's easy

dude you just gotta get like get a parachute harness and then just sit outside on the hot tarmac for hours and

if you can do that you could do you gotta drink it you you do it you gotta drink a half gallon of water so you have

to use the bathroom and then you also have to spend about a third of that time trying to find a blank firing adapter for an m203 yeah if we can do those a

can of air you know like just whatever it is you know just just stupid [ __ ] but

it's like it's because think about it most of the military is run by 20 year olds like at

least it runs it it runs on 20 year olds like your body runs on red blood cells like they're just you know running

around doing everything yeah that's what it is like you look at most of the Ring of Battalion the average age was like

what 21 22. yep I've seen like that's that's just a frat house With Grenades

and Rockets you know come on man yeah we were better than that I don't know man

you saw the weekends they were crazy like I remember waking up and like dude

why are you in the hallway uh that was the answer I got

I'm sorry yeah uh uh

bear term you know yeah I was sleeping on the stairwell exactly but like that's

that's what happens sometimes right but because it's just like a frat house man we just had responsibilities and we had

to go do a job yeah rat peeps just get to do whatever and then go go to school

or whatever to the to the to the to the outside world there is one thing worth

mentioning about it is that if you show up at the wrong time you'll have you will wonder what the

hell's going on like you know this is just a bunch of animals but if but that

but then if you look if you zoom back maybe three days they're also extremely

high functioning yeah where you're like oh okay so you just completed Airfield

seizure and now everyone's passed out on the stairs yeah now it remains exhausted and we're just trying to like [ __ ]

dewine or unwind yep so yeah and I mean yeah there are there are things about it

too uh you know we can always look back and say hmm I wish I didn't do that but

everybody can do that every single day the world can do that I wish I didn't do that like there's something out there

that they've done they're like um I could have made a different Choice that's totally possible which is which

is a perfect segue into our next section is it so what were some mistakes and things that if you're if if someone in

the audience is interested in becoming an instructor or that road is a potentiality to them what

are some mistakes and lessons learned that you've learned as an instructor for being an

instructor well some good lessons right here right yeah um the biggest one

is getting through your head that one you don't know everything

all right you you have no idea how much [ __ ] is out there not not as in [ __ ] is in bad stuff but things right stuff so

there there's so much out there that you'll never know everything it's just like anything else in this world like we

won't ever know all the things so you constantly have to be learning new

things always be trying new things you have to discover new things and if you

don't shoot as a teacher like if you're a teacher out there and you're not out on the Range like shooting and like

learning things or trying new things out that are funky or maybe testing something out that somebody else told

you about then what you're doing is you're living in in your little box

and you're doing a disservice to almost every student you've you come upon because think about it like the way I

hold a handgun and the way you hold a handgun are completely different anyway you are wrong-handed so I can't

help you there aren't left-handed I'm right-handed okay but the reason I say that is because if

you look at both our hands they're different dude we don't have the same [ __ ] hand so even if we have the

same handgun and it was exactly the same we would have to hold it slightly

different even if it was just one percent different it would be a different group every single one of us do so when you look at it that like like

take it into like a a Nuance that that far into a Nuance uh you'll realize that

like I need to know more and I need to learn more because I need to be able to give

that to students right I need to be able to give you so many options and help you

understand what works for you and what doesn't work for you so that you can make yourself better right so I my

classes all my mechanics courses that are on my website Focus heavily on self-diagnostics because if I can

diagnose what's going on with me I need a teacher less right not that I

can't learn new things but I don't need them like hovering over me and helping me right so that's the goal as a teacher

is to make your students not need you right that's that's what it should be at least right but out there there's too

many people like they they're just like oh I'll give you this one piece so that you come back for more [ __ ] that dude no

I I want to give you everything you need and more and then I want you to to go work on it

and then if you do come back hopefully I've learned something new that now I can portray to you too so

if you want to be a teacher you also have to be a student because you have to know what a student

is thinking how they're feeling what scares students what makes them think different ways because if you don't

experience these things like how the [ __ ] would you know how are you going to understand where and and why they feel

the way they feel like for example I have a student and she has a little bit

of anxiety when it comes to shooting and and it's a private student so like I go out there with her and we work

one-on-one to to get get her understanding like it's okay to shoot stuff but when she first started she was

scared of shooting and it's okay like that's a thing like it's a little explosion in your hands I understand it

but once when she got past it and she started understanding now it's just like

the only thing that bothers her is just shooting at distance this is hard for her so we're working on it but that's

all it is it's like you're you gotta gain certain certain levels of experience and if you never try you

won't know and if I was never scared of shooting I may not know how to convey

the way that I could hopefully help her get through it so you recommend that

instructors go take other instructors classes not for the sake of data mining

I know you know well scumbags are going to scumbag but at the same time like I think most of us know that the that's

not how it works here's a a good example is like um

shooting and shooting right like shooting guns is shooting guns like uh the fundamentals of shooting are there we all know you have to hold it and not

let the sights move while you press the trigger and once you do that the bullet goes does its thing that's it that's all

it is so if you cannot move the sights and press triggers like that's it it's

how you convey that in detail with explanation examples

and and put that into students minds and into their hopefully their hands to to

get them to shoot in the way that they need to shoot because once again it's their shooting not my shooting that

makes them better it's their shooting that makes them better so how do how do we convey that kind of

information and then also um continuously help them grow and

that's by us experiencing different things as well right so like I just got back from shooter Symposium that's why I

have this like freaking crazy tan line right now um in Texas and every year shooter Symposium is four days of shooting the

first days like little competitions and having fun and I love I love competing right next to the students I I shoot

with them um I believe I'm one of the only instructors that actually does that

that's at that event um all the other ones are you know doing whatever they're doing maybe I mean they're probably busy with like video

and all this other stuff for them for like vendors and stuff but I take time

out of that that day that full day to go spend time with all the students and go shoot with them talk to them see what

they're experiencing because it's a little competition so the stress levels are different and like what one guy's

feeling isn't what the other guy's feeling Maybe similar but I'm curious to see what it is what makes him shoot like

[ __ ] and what hit makes him shoot really good right but I could see those things visually I could hear about it by the

way they talked to me about it and I could actually like I can I can be more understanding of what students are

experiencing then from there like the next three days are all classes well most of my classes are at night so the

only way I get a tan line is to go and spend time in a class during the day while I wait to go teach at night

and and wait yeah so I'm turning all [ __ ] day yeah since tired John is

tired yeah but it's dude it's it's so worth it because one dude may say something in a way and

you're like man I never thought of it that way and and that could just be the difference that makes it different for

just one of your students out of the billions of students you'll ever see but you helped that one dude become a

better [ __ ] person right by just explaining it the way that you heard it from somebody else and to me that's

that's not considered data mining if you cite your sources right so I think that's important man and and

that's why like uh most of my peers uh the the ones that I've actually spoken

to or hung out with or they've seen me in class before they ever met me right like I just show up to classes and and I

mean I I pay I register I go fly out there I do the thing and they don't know me until after the class or they notice

me at the beginning of the class and they're like what the hell is he doing here and I'm just there to learn man I

just want to do student things I want to see what other students are experiencing and I want to see how teachers teach because I can take notes on both right

and and why not want to learn more [ __ ] so learning never ends and so if you're

trying to be a teacher of any sort whether you're going to teach driving shooting Polo it doesn't matter you

still have to be a student to an extent you have to figure out how to be and you have to be one of those that don't have

some ego that's going to stop you from learning something because you're like no I'm too hard-headed to hear that I

don't want to hear it I don't want to hear your way because my way is better no [ __ ] that I want to hear your way

because I want to see if I can better my way fair fair yeah I think when it

when it comes to teaching I'm not an instructor so I my this might be

two cents not worth spending but um

you and I have heard phrases spoken for years now right or like slow

smooth as fast right um even though your teacher always be a student and or or always learning or

um or some the phrases of this sort of the road to hell is paved in Good Intentions

um you know surround yourself good people surrounding yourself with good people because then you will become like

them many of these phrases seem to be employed by individuals as acts of

reinfor or statements of reinforcing their already current commitments or they descend into platitudes that sound

nice but have no meaning okay right I think I I this is a little bit on

my own observation of like like they don't they don't they don't live what they're speaking I in myself

I've seen it and uh myself or you know I I will say a thing

that sounds nice sounds oh okay that sounds smart and I'll tell myself that thing

but it but it but you go into my skull and there's no there's no or my heart in

that sense there's no commitment to it there's no rational component to it it's just oh yeah I'm telling myself this

because it makes it it's not like it just makes me feel good it's like okay there I'm doing it right sometimes you

have to stumble through the darkness of cynicism to come to wisdom and that sounds all pretty and [ __ ] but

when you say this as an instructor because you're giving some examples

as an instructor you say things like you have to always be learning always keep an open mind how have you

um are there techniques habits or practices that you

have implemented appreciated or taken advantage of to correct

within yourself either a unwilling sorry unwillingness to learn

an unwillingness to be a student or to better understand what it means to

be a student or what it means to be learning on a subject and being willing to learn from other people

well I think I think one thing that I've done over the years is

like uh that use discipline right in in a way

right to to keep myself honest right so in in this is just a simple example so

when I teach if I mess up something in front of us all the students or

something like that I actually use it as a teaching point right I don't just

ignore it or like oh don't look at that little guy you know don't worry about that little guy whatever it is like I I

actually like let's worry about that little guy and let's bring it in let's talk about it let's see what happened

right what did I feel what my hands do you know what why did I do that why did I make a boo-boo you know and and to be

honest like I think shooting in front of students keeps you more honest as well

so not just demonstration wise but shooting with them in the class right

showing them that you're also trying to push yourself you're also trying to you

know get better overall but the discipline that goes goes with that is

also all those misses are something that like I'll go and like you know I use it as a a tool for me to

go work out a little bit right and go do some burpees right based off of how many

misses I had or something right and the discipline to like keep doing that and and only you can keep yourself in

line realistically like you just fake it and be like I don't wanna right and not do it but for me to come home from you

know 10 hours on on a hot range all day and then still end up knocking out

[ __ ] 70 80 burpees in uh in sets because I missed seven or eight rounds

that day uh that discipline to do that in my opinion keeps me where I keep

striving for more and betterness right like or being becoming better so

where where I I don't know how many people actually like do anything to that sort I don't know

how many instructors that actually um you know use those uh mistakes as

teaching points I'm sure there are some because I haven't seen everybody and I don't see every class that everybody teaches so it's impossible for me to

know um but the honesty that you you hold to yourself and the discipline you hold with yourself is what is portrayed to so

many people when you're out and about and doing things so um so for example the passion I have for

teaching isn't because I want to like make money because I actually am passionate about

making people good right and like getting people to become better Shooters so the the passion I have for shooting I

want to portray that to students because I don't have to work at it I don't have to try hard to be passionate about

something right it's just like anything else like if you could think of anything that you really really like and you are

very passionate about it is not hard to talk about it it's not hard to help people learn about it it's not hard to

yeah you could talk for [ __ ] hours on it why because like it just comes

naturally it's it's you're you're passionate about it you'll spend all day on that [ __ ] and all night you know so

so I mean it it never ends so I I think a lot of people you know they they lose

that magic if they had it in the first place and to keep yourself honest and keep yourself disciplined with it

you yourself have to hold yourself accountable and if you're not holding yourself accountable you'll start

finding that you become you know the guy that just stands in the back and he's

like all right guys uh up

up you know like that's not fun right like like you're

you're not helping students you're you're just making them do reps or whatever you know I I talk to people about this every once in a while but

like the difference between an instructor and a teacher right I know the the definition if you look it up

right now right listeners can look it up right now on their phones or freaking interwebs and and realistically that the

definition is synonymous right like they they're the same thing a teacher is an instructor and an instructor is a

teacher but or yeah so but the way I perceive that is different

so I look at as a teacher is a person who is going to teach you a task so you

don't once again need that teacher like like uparesta at Starbucks is a good example

if there was a person there that didn't teach them how to make coffees right whatever

coffee you like or what is ordered if they didn't have anybody teaching them how to do that and they just had some

instructor there telling them what to do step by step every single time they had a coffee

order it would be really inefficient and you would have this guy micromanaging everything not to say an instructor is a

micromanager but that's what that word means to me is an instructor gives you

steps to do and he expects you to follow those steps and then you're not letting

the person think for themselves and solve the steps for themselves and learn with that but a teacher teaches you

the steps and then lets you do the steps does that make sense I don't know if

that makes sense yeah I I think that's a little funny yeah no there's a there's a part of it that sticks right it sticks

very clearly and I think it ha that that in the in your demarcation between a

instructor and a teacher is that the instructor presents the how

in a mechanical sense for the objective of being able to see

the outcome happen in the student okay I saw you do one proper rep whereas a

teacher is much more focused on or is in conjunction with the how including the

why and the self-evaluation so that the teacher is passing on to this the

student I know how I'm grabbing uh I know how I'm gripping the handgun or pieing a

door or using my light laser Illuminator combo to or my Illuminator laser combo

to search a a piece but then a teacher will translate

the why of that in a way that is edifying to the student without being

gratuitous uh Gertrudis and ego but and then and

then also the ability to go oh I saw how I did that wrong but I think I can

correct it and and those are yeah those are good you know cases that's a good way to put it because like in in one way

it's short term right as an instructor you're looking for short-term successes right in your

students as a teacher you're looking for their longevity and their long-term successes and the continuous success in

your student right over the course of time so at least for me like I I want I

want them to get to a Collegiate level of [ __ ] shooting yeah I I want them to stay in in [ __ ] middle school math

well you can you can you can actually apply this I think you can apply this this integrity and it really I think I

think it's an I think it's a moral issue I don't I re I think from a t I think this the

difference between a good teacher and a mediocre teacher is an Ethics question I don't think it's a skill level question

I really think it's an Ethics question do you have the Integrity to do the job correctly or do you lack the integrity

and thus only want the results to look a certain way and the another example of

the how this trend how this translates into another arena is look at either you

could call it social media marketing but look at you know look at the internet right just just just Instagram right

it's it's oh yeah that guy has a bunch of cool looking videos but he's trying

to be an instructor right okay so there's a certain value to being able to

demonstrate your work absolutely but if you're lacking the you know but if

you're if you lack the integrity and you speed up your videos or you you know and

and not artistically right let's let's make it let's let's we're we are intelligent beings in this culture I

know that there's a difference between playing with the speed of your video for

the sake of entertainment and for the sake of kind of one-upsmanship you know oh I'm I'm faster than John right you

know my split times are 0.05 and you're like yeah I'm sure whatever dude yeah whatever man yeah you

shoot faster than that AKA full auto yeah right yeah well yeah yeah you shoot

faster than the AK in full auto or I I although given I have seen a video where

Jerry mikulik's finger is moving faster than the bolt carrier on a shotgun so are the best but he's he's not he

doesn't count he doesn't count uh no but but it's it's true though

there are those savants that are out there that they're just that is what they were put on this planet to do you

know and like some of those those little freaks of nature that are awesome it's super cool watching and seeing them but

like I want to know if they can show me how to do that you know how did that how is

that being conveyed or is that literally just a physical attribute that none of

us have and can have because it is them being freaks of nature well I mean as as

accomplished in a good way like I'm not saying in a bad way or whatever but but I think I think when it comes to I think

I think the the primary dividing element and the in the the issue that separates the good from the great is actually an

Ethics question is is do you have the Integrity to do the work when you're not

on camera do you have the Integrity to be human when necessary do you have the

Integrity to um put your money where your mouth is kind of thing like you do do you can you

how can you handle the Slow Rolling heat of being in this culture for a long time

can you you know these there there are I think there's a lot of elements to it but at the end it's a different way of

looking at it which is it's interesting to think of it that way but it's it's true though there are certain things is

like I mean Integrity is a huge thing in general but like when when you look at it in in the

fashion in that fashion it's kind of interesting to see like you can you can literally go through

all the Instagram Peeps and look through there and be like ah like this is what

we can categorize this as by looking through this so yeah because I can look

at two pages or I can know two people who play with play with uh play with the Codex or play with the recordings and

play with their videos right and one of them will be oh that's entertaining that's a that's an interesting way of

doing it right and I know that he's playing with the speed and I know he's doing certain things right and another one will be hmm that guy's a scumbag

because he's lying about something right right you know and that's what this one's being artistic and

entertaining and the other one is being um uh not conniving what's the word I'm

looking for um in genuine disingenuous sorry yeah so

uh that there's exactly that like and it's super true man and it's crazy like

I mean we've been to shop show multiple times already now together and and we see it every year and like you see those

dudes that walk around me mugging right everybody they mean everybody and you're

like bro you work for a t-shirt company like calm down like we're at a

convention in Vegas like just have fun you know have fun for like five [ __ ] minutes and just stop being a [ __ ]

weirdo where you gotta like you know show me how angry your face is and [ __ ] so trust me well if you crack a smile

your entire reputation for being a steely-eyed killer will be broken apparently right but if you look at the

actual steely-eyed Killers they're all giggling and like you know pinching each other's nipples and [ __ ] it's [ __ ]

hilarious but you look at the the dudes that are mean mugging and stuff and like like I just I I didn't understand it at

first when I first started in this world and I was like why looking at me like that does he want to like

do I have a dick growing on my forehead like what's going on cue The Alex Jones meme are you trying

to have sex with me yeah yeah but but so so I found it uh it started getting

annoying to the point of like like what can I do about this this thing like how

can I change the way that people are looking um at me at least right because I can only affect that part I can't like

affect their brains for the most part but what I ended up doing and I don't know if I ever told you this or if you

ever saw me do this while we were walking around SHOT show but I blow kisses at people that meet monkey

well I'm a kiss dude so it it and what it does is it usually disarms them a

little bit and they're like wait a minute look behind them and like what's going on why why is that why'd that dude

blow me a kiss like is he did he see somebody he knows like it's it's very

entertaining especially because you keep walking and they never or hopefully they never see you again or they never ask or

whatever I haven't been asked about it but every time somebody mean mugs me at a show an event a convention or whatever

ah dude I I just blow him a kiss see what happens because yeah

going to Shot Show and showing ego is just it what it should what it what it communicates to everybody is that you

lack confidence or you lack something right like and it's ugly it's all it is

it's right like it's just something that people people need to get past man yeah it makes you look like an amateur like

if you can't chill out if you have to like if you're like trying to establish

dominance and you're you're like oh I remember when I first discovered the idea of like an alpha male and you're

like dude like you the premise I live my life by is that I

know for a fact right there's got to be some one at least one dude out there in

this world that is better at everything than I am better at anything like

anything I think of like there's there's a dude obviously there's a dude that's better shooter all right there's

definitely a better view that's a better teacher there's definitely a dude that can definitely kill me like with a

goddamn pencil all right there's a dude out there guaranteed but

if I want to live my life thinking I'm that dude that dude's gonna eat me for lunch one

day right but if I continuously try to train or or better myself or practice or

you know work on my physical fitness in a way that will will prepare me for that

day of that dude that's better than me then I'm just trying to better myself right I'm bettering myself over time but

if I if I'm if I think I'm that dude then you stop trying to better yourself

because you have nothing to look towards or be fearful of if you want to call it fear but there's nothing there's nothing

driving you anymore Napoleon yeah Napoleon was I cut you off

I this one we'll blame the computer go but the uh the the way I the the way

that kind of works or or in conjunction with that is remember when we were when we were first going through rip and

like they would the the instructors were like you want to be Gods amongst men right they were building that ego as we

were already getting into it and to the point to that we when we went to like

Dental appointments and we were walking down the sidewalk up to dental like in

our uniform or our pins and patches or the chambrays and we're we're walking like we [ __ ] own

Fort Benning like we own the [ __ ] place like that's how we would walk because we had that we were just awfully

the alpha e is as in that manner and we were so confident in ourselves but what

we didn't understand is that it didn't matter like there's probably a Pogue that was looking at us and was

like oh these guys are [ __ ] douchebags like I can kill any of them with my skill level of whatever you know

like like but but because of the organization we were in it made us puff up our chests and all sorts of stuff but

it doesn't matter yeah there's something to be proud of yourself but there's

definitely that like but they boasted everybody's egos to make them feel like they were better

than everybody else and I think that's that's how you get people to stifle

their training right like yeah think about how many guys like I only know of

two dudes other than myself that went to classes outside the military on their

own dime to go learn how to shoot yeah no I did not yeah I I only knew two

other guys and and the only reason one of them went was because I forced him to come with me because I knew it would

better him because yeah like the first time I went dude I was like man I I

actually went to Fred Proctor right like because he's a Green Beret so it was a little bit more familiar I was like let me go see let me see what this this

outside training kind of thing is right and and just out of curiosity because I'm like I'm pretty good shooter then I

got there and I was like man I suck I suck terribly all right did my first USPS USPSA match I was I got beat by a

little old lady with a cigarette in her mouth dude a rage a ranger beaten by a smoking

Grandma dude she she was she had a cigarette in her mouth and she was just like Jack

and she was just [ __ ] awesome she's just efficient and accurate she couldn't

even load her own gun I'll tell you this like local match so somebody went up they knew her because she's there every

[ __ ] week and a half and she was like she was like awesome I need somebody do me the favor right and they load her gun

for her put it in her holster you know and then and then she said sets up and she's like Meep and then she goes

through her stage and dude she beat me is this in Alabama yeah an East Alabama

Gun Club the landed gentry uh somebody load this for me yeah but she was like

she she wrecked me in in the scoreboard or on the scoreboard in there now

that right there threw me for a loop that took Ranger

Duffy and was like hey bro you suck like how do we fix that and and

what a really cool experience because like imagine like my brain at the time

you know 19 20 year old me and like holy [ __ ]

there's more to shooting than just what I've learned from the Army by far

because now I mean now we know better right with the Army was only giving us the lowest common denominator of of

training right what can they spew out in succession over and over out of a

[ __ ] binder right and and there are still people that teach that way but like there's so much more to it and

there's so much more or better ways of explaining certain things that people understand and actually caring about

what they get out of it but um that's why I I kind of joke around it

I joke about it but I try to teach higher right like a higher level of training

but only by using like the highest denominator of student right like like I

want to teach you the way that I want to be taught like that's how my classes are it's like how would I want to learn this

thing right and and I I would want to learn it if I were like coming to this class I would want to learn it with all

the information I would want to give I would want all this info so that I can make better decisions for myself I would

want to know how to self-diagnose so I can better myself over time so like you

look at all these different things and that's that's what literally took me uh from being ego Duffy like [ __ ]

Ranger right to [ __ ] anyway you're really good at that Ranger Voice by the

way right all the time dude yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you really gotta like uh John Wayne

um but but you look at that and you like okay and and if you could dial that back for a minute and take off those blinders

and like see the world for what it is and really understand that you you know

very little but you don't know that you know so little until you know you know a little right like the whole you don't

know until you know yeah done in Kruger plus naivety I mean there are you I

think I you know I think it is a hardship of it's a reality that you will

run into people like you'll run into people who are they are case studies for

the dunning-kruger effect and it's like you know you you run into it and the but there

there is good news is that some some of those people will make it out they will

right and as like an exciting challenge when I have one in class and you and me

are proof of that at least you are and then I'm an I'm an egotist trying to say I am no you are in the sense of you know

you didn't know that you knew nothing about shooting even though you were Ragnar strong until you got beaten by a

smoking grandma and then it was like oh smoke me dude

yep okay I will then and that and like okay cool that's that's neat I I was

saying earlier Napoleon the Bonaparte was one was known for whether it's apocal for apocryphal or not one of his

sayings his his quotes was the moment of Victory is uh also the moment of the

greatest danger or something akin to this like the moment of Victory is when you're in the greatest danger of defeat and there's there's a historical

attitude to this where during that time of warfare if you you in a pitched

battle um if one side broke and they usually

broke the line usually broke with less casualties than are depicted in Hollywood movies the Victorious line

might pursue them because the in in argument or in theory the greater amount

of death occurs not when they're shooting at each other but when one is running and one is shooting and but that during that during that you

stress that you put on yourself because you wanna you you want to perform correctly right you want to do well so I

think that that's where competitive shooting really brings to light a lot of things now another correlation that I

think is a really important one that people don't don't think about too much is that competitive shooting makes you

perform on demand right like performance on demand is a thing right there you don't get warm-ups

in real life you don't get to sit there and like all right let me draw on this

you know bad guy 14 times before I actually the 15th time I actually shoot him now you don't get no draws prior you

don't get to warm up prior um not to say you shouldn't because there are things that you can do but

in the real life you you're demanded your performance it's demanded by senior Batman right and he demands her

performance you must perform your performance will kind of come out to the way you come out

right based off your training because we we well they say you fall back on your level of training but realistically you

what you do is you fall back on your level of subconscious competence because your conscious competence is

trying to solve a problem in front of you all right put that into [ __ ] which

once again which will once again separates people on the basis of Integrity do you have the Integrity to

do the work when no one's looking right and and and performance on demand shows

that now then you go to competitive shooting and every stage is a cold run

it's a performance on demand run you don't get to run it three times live and

then go and like all right I got this now put me on the clock you know it's it's like hey the first

time you do it live is the time that you get and that's the score you get and then they write that [ __ ] down that's

your score for the day right like that is what it is and now you're being rated between the 150 people that are there or

whatever so the the performance on demand aspect of being able to demand or sorry perform

when your performance is being demanded by somebody else especially in an exercise that somebody else set up and

you didn't set it up you're not doing something that you're comfortable with yet right hopefully or or maybe it is

because you're you compete a lot that's awesome but um but it's it's something

that is fresh right and I think people like they they take it too far they're

like well I would never fight 18 dudes I don't get attacked by cardboard either

man like who gives a [ __ ] it's a game it's like going to play

basketball like you don't kick the basketball well some of us do for fun but some you you play a game of

basketball with all the dudes at the gym guess what you play by the rules that's it

right but if you go play Streetball with a bunch of [ __ ] dudes you don't know and you don't care about their lives and [ __ ] like you can just break the [ __ ]

rules and just [ __ ] do whatever you want right that's life so like you you look at it and it's just

it's literally just the the rules you want to play by yeah you know if you got

to play with conventions or you gotta play by USPSA rules it's the same thing there's different rules

you got to follow the rules

applying the Geneva Convention to USPSA is both comical and and like well I mean

you know it's you could argue that they're both corrupt but that's not

that's that's not the point it's just funny it's like I've never I've never heard of rules yeah yeah I have never in

my life heard somebody compare you a a a a state like a competition format uh

compared to international law when it comes to the you you know use of weapons

and War but hey you support yeah yeah well I think you know it's it's the same thing USPSA States how you are allowed

to use Force against those papers yeah well you could even what there's a a book play Anything by

forget his name or he talks about what a game is is it's a set of rules that any a game is simply

a set of rules kind of thing like it's it's you know you look at it that constrain the amount of options that you

have to do I don't want to it's right in the game yeah yeah yeah it's yeah you try to win

the game you know like if you're playing a game of chess and somebody starts pulling out checker pieces and doing different things you're not playing

chess anymore yeah so it's like when your little brother is is the bank in

Monopoly and he's stealing all the [ __ ] 500s uh cheater

right but but at the same time well somebody doesn't have a little brother anymore he went to go work for the

Federal Reserve he's an irsa agent now uh but you're dead to me

no but but realistically speaking like it's whatever rules you want to follow you play by the rules it's like I mean

I'm sure you were a kid and you had friends hopefully right did you have friends um well I was homeschool I was

homeschooled so no actually I grew up in a mud hut if you if you want to know the

the it's the based on a true story book it's um Laura Ingalls Wilder Little House on the Prairie

so delicious I grew up uh yes I have

friends like you had friends right so you guys made up your own games sometimes yep like I know like we made

up our own way of playing Monopoly we made up our own way of playing you know basketball with our own rules yeah we

had the constraints we had of our court slash driveway yeah I I had a friend who

him and I were both into Legos and then so we we had our own version you know like those tabletop games like you got

um Warhead well one of them is like the Warhammer series and then there's like

there's similar versions of that where you gotta like collect all these armies and paint them and then like oh okay

yeah go go in public and and bring your 700 or 2 000 collection of painted

figures and go beat somebody else's painted figures which like in theory is that it actually sounds really fun it's

just with actual little characters yeah yeah I don't know because I I my experience

with d d is pretty small although it's trendy so maybe we should start tactical DND please don't it's actually super fun

my alumni do it there's one in my group that has their own DND

uh game that they play and I've played with them online so you don't have to be in person with

peeps fair enough and then there's this uh thing called black powder red Earth and they've got little Miniatures of

dudes with like rifles with suppressors and nods it's a cool comic apparently oh yeah

I've seen I've seen one of the comics and I ended up picking up a thing of the models just because it's like oh you know what that would be kind of a fun

thing to do yeah um right and if anything else support the boys right yeah and culture

buildings just do what you want to do in life yeah well to an extent there are rules but uh if you follow them Geneva

conventions USPSA are you are you are you an anarchist

okay I just don't care if it says no u-turn and I don't see anybody that's gonna you know stifle me from doing a

U-turn or give you Southern boys doing it my grandfather was a southern boy and you guys all have the same motto it

ain't illegal if you don't get caught and it's like essentially but no it's it's mostly like little things like that

like it says no left turn but like I can get across that road yeah like

no no cop Constable Sheriff I got it all right and but it's it's

Florida man style dude like whatever's available like I can do it

like hold my beer kind of stuff while you're driving a car so I hope

it's not holding my beer well in that context no but well but like we'll just

go straight to Crown it's actually I mean if you remember like I don't I don't even drink actually but but uh but

I just saw that I thought I thought we talked about that at SHOT show but you might have

it's because I couldn't afford ammo when I was in the Army if I drink

think about how poor we were because we got paid you know dog [ __ ] to go do really bad [ __ ] right and we were not

paid well and for come the the the compensation for the work done was not okay however

we did nothing to help it out right it's like your house is paid for technically most of your food is paid for your you

know and you're like oh yeah I'm not getting I get paid less than a uh you know a McDonald's worker yeah but the

McDonald's worker has to pay rent and large bills and bills and you're like

you have to pay for your internet bill because we also are just like we're considered property this is also true

yeah we're really considered employees you know yeah yeah yeah you can't demand you cannot demand a wage increase or a

cost of living adjustment because you know the economy is bad or you can't uh can't demand anything well it's just

super you can it's just super ineffective like oh

but yeah so I couldn't afford if if I wanted to drink with the boys on the weekend

right I can go out downtown Columbus and I I couldn't afford to do that and shoot

as much as I wanted to shoot so I opted for buying ammo over drinking and my

next drinking off my my uh my docket and I actually just dd'd a lot and still got

to hang out with my friends I just I didn't drink well that was probably better for you in

the long run yeah we'll just go it's a mature choice yeah

I think it ended up well because all I got to do is refine skill and get better

um and that was that was after the old lady incident where she [ __ ] wrecked me so

for me personally that that was a good turning point in my life uh like ego is

not your Amigo like just Chuck press Burger likes to say and uh and I think

it's it's 100 true you know and and it's not until somebody shows you where

you're at in your ego or in your your your status with whatever you're doing that your eyes are open to the whole

shenanigans that you're missing out on because you you had your eyes closed at the first time so I think it's interesting man it's I

think it's kind of cool how that all worked out but yeah that's that's why I never ended up uh getting back into

drinking too so I could save that money for something else having a mission having a mission in a

direction does does quite a bit for you in that Arena I think I mean

passion yeah I can imagine you know as veterans we encounter stories of

others who others like us who didn't didn't find a

path and ended up taking their life or or you know it's like that and it's a

I don't want to I don't want to patronize the subject too much it's it's one of those that's always frustrated me

uh well not not me it's always frustrated I think so many of us it's like you kind of feel you feel so

helpful helpless to address the subject I mean it's a mixture right like you

want to because to bring light to the subject because you need more of of it being known but

you don't want to because it's like it's taboo to an extent because now like

you're talking about people like committing suicide yeah I don't think it's I don't think it's Taboo in the sense of like we don't want to talk

about it I think the reason why it's taboo is because for probably a plain overhead whatever

but for For Better or For Worse you know I remember in like the 15 2015-16 time

range where it was starting to come out where it was like no there's 40 000 veteran-based Charities and we're still

dealing with 22 you know 21 22 a day and it's like and there's something worth saying is that perhaps the fact that

there were 40 000 Charities was keeping the number that low you know that's that's an as an evaluation that can be

made I'm not saying that's a low number but there is something to be said that like you know maybe the fact that would

be worse you know it could be worse and then there is an argument to that one and

and and I think you know sometimes veterans um my myself would be included would say

um there was you know there there I can think of a time where if you had said

that if you had said what you just said that you're like oh well when I was in the the Rangers or when I was in the

military I didn't drink and I didn't spend money drinking so I could afford ammunition and I could sit here as a

veteran and I've been out for six or seven years now and I hear you say that and I go uh

well it's too late for me to make a change because I drank it I drank in the

military and then I got out of the military and I and I became an alcoholic or or whatever right you know and and

it's it that's an interest that's um I think I think someone could hear that and

you know take it correctly it's I'm not saying take it incorrectly I'm saying that I I want to make sure that I I'm

not saying take it incorrectly I think that they could look at it and go oh they could become extremely disheartened

by it because they see that somebody else made the right decision and they did not make what

their understanding as the right decision and then and that becomes um a cascading wave of anxiety and

depression that continues to push them towards the destructive lifestyle

or decisions and

and it also brings into the to like like a free will man

yeah and Free Will can be a free will can be a frightening thing because sometimes sometimes you come to a better

understanding of a free will by the horrible decisions you've made but I think I think

part of the one thing that I wanted to bring up and I appreciate it I wanted you on the part of this conversation was

just how I think that the I don't want to say that the tides are

changing as an easy way of saying it but one thing that I have appreciated about gun culture is that it's becoming more

I think it's I think we're restoring Integrity by the by the by the inches

um into a into a culture that has produced a a fair amount of reasonable

skept there's that has produced a fair amount of reason for skepticism uh whether it's you know from manufacturers

instructors celebrities or whatever right you can say it that way but also but

when it comes to you and I coming to get having this

conversation as veterans I mean we we do share a history we yeah we do we do share history we're a little bit we have

some advantage of time between us I I think that there's grounds to say look

if you sit if you if you're waking up today and going ah I'm that guy and it's

not and the scenario is different right whether the veterans or not like the

the reality is um

this culture is not as dark as as as you think it is the people there are people we are here like and sometimes we don't

know what to do sometimes you you know you come if you came to me tomorrow and said my life is in Ruins it's like I wouldn't know what

to do but like cool we'll figure it out that is a reality that will never get

recognition and I'm okay with that but it's there okay you know it'll never get

recognition because it's not there for the recognition but if there are people in this culture who if you reach out to

whether you know them or don't will be late they may not be able to they they may not be a therapist but

we're here for each other man we have to be yeah they may not be able to solve the problem but they can they can hang

out with you and at least soothe the problem yeah as long as you don't become disingenuous and take advantage of

people like that's that's the only that's the only caveat like don't fake don't fake um don't fake depression

in order to gain attention like just you know because we don't know well Stolen Valor is a perfect example of that like

oh you know what I lost my lost my arm in the big war and it's like no you didn't you were in a car accident because you were driving drunk and now

nobody likes you so go away yeah sergeant major Captain yeah sergeant

major Captain well yeah but people who get that many ranks messed up usually are dealing with something much worse

than Stolen Valor um but I am I am gonna kind of hard

segue here uh because there are a couple things I wanted to ask you about before or just kind of break into

before we roll out uh one of them is that like so you you've designed some of your own gear right you've you've got uh

tie-down systems for helmet for night vision on helmets um and a couple of other things

um I am newer in the I am I am I personally

am newer into the r d side for the sake of production right like I've been I've

been able to r d so so I've been able to research or test out T I've been a lot

on the T and E side of the r d world um but so and you have been on both ends

I'm assuming I mean of course you know right so you started with a night how

did you go from idea to delivery and what did that look like on your learning process

because you're well it kind of differs based off the the thing that you're trying to make

okay um but let's start with like the nerd right which is my night vision elastic

retention device okay and it's not yeah it's not crazy it's not like some

elaborate design or anything like that but it it stemmed from and actually I

have it right here foreign it stemmed from me making this long ago

in the military because the Wilcox one that looks kind

of like janitor keys uh it broke one time and I'm sorry it

didn't break the mount released my night vision because it has like a quick release just in case you run into [ __ ]

right and uh and it broke off and whacked me right in the face

yeah that explains so much that not that's why your eyebrows are crooked right all right for sure and it's

probably why my lips are so fat um but uh so I made this and I put 550 cord

through it and tied down my night vision with it so that even if my quick release

came or my uh sorry my Breakaway feature on the mount came apart it would at least hold my night vision above my head

not down by my chin where it could swing and smack me so it was super simple and

like I used like extras like you know like little stitching out of my sew kit

that it was a color that we weren't going to use for like uniform stuff or anything so I was like [ __ ] it let me

see what it what it does and it worked out really well so um from there it just became like how do

I want to do it how do I want to get the zone you know what kind of stitch patterns we want to use and then uh

finding somebody that would actually make it for me right and the buddy of mine that owns a

uh company Flatline fiberco they make slings they do nylon gear and it was an

easy like hey dude is this in your wheelhouse to like actually produce and he was like yeah I can make you some of

these and then from there it became well how do we refine the process to making them because

uh they're selling so to make it more efficient and and it it just became like

easy from there now the testing side of things I had one for I I used this phone for years prior

and then I started using um a more refined version that he made me and I

had it for like eight or nine months of use teaching and taking classes myself or just walking around driving on boats

going on quads flying on aircraft with night vision on and then realizing this

thing is just it's doing its job it didn't fall off I didn't lose my night vision my night vision didn't hit me in

the freaking mouth like I'm good so um over that course of time I had also

handed out I don't know maybe 25 of them to different friends and different dudes

that use night vision on a regular basis um that work or they're they're also teachers so

so that I can get a larger sample size because my one could work but number two doesn't so I think the r d process

um and then the tne process I I think they should be one in the same per se uh I know there are like distinctions

between them but like linking them at some point and also

realizing that you need large sample sizes um based off what you're making uh so

that you can confirm that you're not just you don't have just a one-off um and that's important and the time and

money that you spend into it obviously you have to get that back somehow in some way but I think people people are

like really greedy out there and that's one thing you try not to be too greedy with with something like that you know

if and uh and the other thing I think too is people need funding for their r d

and their tne process and uh and people pre-order or put out pre-orders for

things to try and support that but the problem is like what what if at the end

the the product doesn't end up being viable and you just took all this money uh and that's when you see like these

once again disingenuous and um morally corrupt humans leave and run

off with people's money so I'm not a big fan of like pre-orders like people are always like well can I just buy one and

then when they're in stock you can just send it to me I'm like new because I don't want your money until like I earn your money right so

um so it's it's one of those kind of things for me but yeah it's it's it's not a crazy process uh realistically

like and now for smaller products I'm sure for something way more elaborate it's definitely like more more things

um but once you find somebody you trust enough to like make it uh it's obviously like a contractual thing you make sure

you make you do a proper contract and then go from there man but it's okay

it's kind of cool but I also have a weird brain so like some of these little products I come out with are from like

the middle of the night staring at my fan and I'm like that would be kind of cool I wonder if that would work so yeah

so like we had villain weapon systems on uh last week so they'll be on the I think the show before yours

um and villain um he makes uh diffusers and focusing

lenses for Peck fix PEC 15s at plc's and

D ball d square d2s what do you choose yeah you know d2s yeah the chalk and

that I'm referring to is the teams uh the the teams of the uh the internet

teams of the of the of the uh VHS like cassette player thing like it

works it's there it's reliable but it's a boy it's big it's pretty much like

putting a projector on the front of your game does it have the whirring noise I have

seen one before they don't but yeah but they work right later actually the

D2 is a great laser so yeah like they work they work mm-hmm so uh but he was he was bringing

that up in a sense of like figuring out how to manufacture a a thing is not a you know

it's not it's not an easy task but you can do it it's not impossible I think people

people fear the unknown a lot right we fear that would be for Darkness that's

why we made night vision uh we we fear the depth of the ocean because it's so dark down there we don't we don't know

what the [ __ ] down there so we we fear it and we fear space because it's so deep and dark and scary and stuff then

but like um like because people fear the unknown so much and I think that's like that's a

normal fear um they're not willing to take a chance on like something new that they're coming out with or they think of but

like I don't know I think there's room for everybody realistically speaking

um and if you have an idea that you you think is viable and you've tested and

you think you you can actually you know provide um a service or or like

actually help and and in any industry really

um if you could help them or make it better like I don't see why not when it comes to product stuff or developing a

new product um it's when you're just copying other people's [ __ ] that's a whole nother

monster right like that's just you trying to make a buck and ride the coattails of somebody else's popularity

in the way that their product came out and is and what they're doing so yeah it's not always the case but

it's almost as if there's something out there that that once again measures you

and if you're found wanting in the realm of

um what you're producing is it oftentimes comes back to kid I know Jordan Peterson's talked about before and

unfortunately I referenced them too much music I mean he says I've never seen anybody get away with anything in my life it's like yeah well you know it's

true I guess you know I'm not old enough to to say it with absolute certainty but it seems to be consistent at this point

in time and yeah yeah I mean I I don't I think I

think the cynicism that's that uh so many manufacturers are met with not met with but like the the purchaser presents

most most manufacturers um could be tempered a little I think it

could be tempered a little bit like you know there's definitely there's definitely some issue challenges that can be found where it's like you

know you it kind of depends too though like because

um like some people put out [ __ ] things and it needs to be like known that it's

trash yeah absolutely right I'm sorry but you're you know you're whatever it is is not is not the same it's not your

steel plates are not just as good as as Ceramics or or Composites or whatever

like cool guy marketing terms don't don't work right yeah

but like they they work at the cost of something though you're right so potentially somebody's life depending on

what you're doing yeah I mean snake oil salesmen have always been around so

you know but being a but approaching everything with the cynicism that assumes everything is out

to get you and everybody every every product is out to steal you hat in hand and every it was like you're not gonna

make it man you're not gonna get better you're going to hurt yourself in the long run yeah do you have there has to

be some you have to find some place for trust and understanding that there will be you will there will be issues where

you'll get burned that's it will happen but well you know where most of these

these products that are successful come from is using things right like

experiencing things and needing something right the necessity or what is it necessity is the whatever of

invention or whatever because necessity is the mother of invention thank you so I'm not good with these quote things I'm

good at nothing but these quote things everything else I'm useless at I'm so good at nothing but quotes yeah season

Seasons only except for when it comes to quotes um but but when it uh like like I think

those those usually are if not most the time like 99 of the time the the coolest

best inventions are usually based off of some kind of need right like like hey I

needed this so I designed it and I made it happen and now we all can enjoy it so

it's kind of cool but um people don't realize what they need until they experience something so like

oftentimes you haven't talked about it offline a little bit like you know we're kind of tired of the whole Barrel discussion like do I need a 205 or

should I get an eleven five I'm like it doesn't matter like both of them are going to shoot relatively the same

um there's money to be spent yeah you're spending money and so you might want to

know you know there are a couple of things and unfortunately decision making process is not simple but well here's

here's what people have started doing instead of making their own decisions they have started to revert to

um having somebody validate what they want before they make that decision or have

them make the decision for them so for example the questions that come up every

week is what's the best this what's the best that and um and what people don't

realize is there is no best of anything realistically like it there may be a best for you because of your

circumstances your needs your environment your situation whatever but it doesn't mean it's the best for me and

it may not be whatever is the best for me isn't the best for you so but but we

we know that best is the concept of what is the best X is always is always going

to be bound to in reference to what it's always going to be bound um in a relative relative to task a

right you know you can and and you can you can we I think at some point in time

the I at some point in time I've become I I think many of us have become absolutely exhausted by this because

it's like yeah I'm not gonna take you know can can you hit can you hit a

Target at 500 yards with a mark 18 yes should you probably not okay probably not there are better options out there

right yeah now and and at some point in time you get a record you you start to recognize that this conversation grows

infinitely uh infinitely with more context which is where you get the what if game right oh well what's the best

AR-15 Daniel Defense Mark 18 okay well what happens if I'm in the mountains okay uh sr25 what happens if I don't

have seven thousand dollars uh okay then a Ruger precision rifle and

a you know end up let you know and what if what if I can only carry one gun and

he's like you know I I get it you can you can you can trail that you can follow that trail

yeah for so long you know and but and I think where where it becomes disingenuous is where I have already

made up in my mind what I want I want a Sig uh a Sig MCX sphere light or

whatever and you're like and and so I go hey you're trying to lead me there but I'm trying to lead you there you know

and I maybe I've already put a down payment on it or not and you're and you're like well you know um if you're getting into

night vision uh you know I look at a A 14-5 or or 13

7 pinned and welded BCM with us you know so it's technically a

16 inch barrel with it but then I would put an adjustable gas block on it or something

well can you even do that no you can't um

already but yeah not if it's pinned already but you know you get my point right like you know so like you know

you'd say that and then I'll be like yeah but what if I want like a piston system and then you know like I'm trying

to get you to justify my own purchases and that had that does happen and maybe that's my actually that might

actually be my own like cynicism now because when somebody asked me it's a normal thing like hey I wanna should I

should I get a Surefire can I'm like no I don't like sure far cans they're like oh damn I already bought one

why'd you ask me yeah yeah ask before you purchase well um

it's just like anything else like people want validation in what they do and what

they don't realize and and what I tell a lot of people is like you don't know what you need until you experience the

need so train go learn things go practice and

what's funny is that as you do more of those and more of that you will slowly

Veer towards what you are looking for that's needed for you right because you

gain more experience which means you gained more knowledge hopefully and then with that you gained the the

understanding of the overall picture of what your needs are and now you you can

know right you you literally know what you need so that's that's why when people ask me

like oh why are you doing why are you using that why are you using this it's like because it fits my needs it's it's

what I want to use it's literally I choose to use it because I wanna and

I don't know I I think um people want like they want that validation but they they just don't want

to make a choice to the the decisiveness of people and the they they don't want

to be there's for making the the financial mistake of buying something the wrong way there is but there is also

the reality that we go to other people for advice like I there are certain things if I'm gonna build a bolt action

if I'm gonna build a a Precision bolt action rifle um I am going to go to somebody else and

I'm going to ask them and I will probably do everything that they tell me to do right here's the thing and you're

going to go to them and you're going to have a a list of the reasons why you want a bolt action rifle where you're

going to use it why are you going to use it like because it's I'm gonna give them criteria they're going to give me an

answer right because they can they can narrow it for you to help you choose options based off of them being a

subject matter expert or whatever but if you go like I just want a bolt action rifle like there's a lot of reasons for

a bolt action rifle and John justify a fixed by Q right right exactly and okay

so that means you just want to play around like cool like and then you can buy whatever

to play around with but if you want to go hunting and you want to go backpacking in Washington

like dude you need a lightweight rifle to an extent you need a certain caliber

to an extent you need a certain amount of magnification and skill to shoot this thing to a certain extent and let alone

the endurance to backpack through there and do the thingies and not die so

there's there are dudes that are suited for explaining that because hey I want to go on a backpack or I want to go back